confused and needing clarification!

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by daisy1942, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Hi all,

    I shall try to explain why I feel Dominic Cunningham Casey (DCC) and Dominic Michael Stringer (DMS) are the same person:
    1) They share the same date of birth although I had two different years for the birth of DMS when I started.
    2) The share the same christian names of their father.
    3) Their mother died in childbirth
    4) DMS told us there were twins in the family that died at birth. This appears in DCC family too.
    5) They both grew up in the same area of Glasgow.
    6) DCC vanished late in 1941 and did not return from the war.
    7) Until the information on DCC turned up I had no verifiable records of DMS prior to 14.2.1942
    9) DCC returned to Glasgow in the mid 1950's much to the surprise of his family as they had had his marriage annulled on the assumption he had died in the war.
    10) DMS paid one visit to Glasgow in the mid 1950's and was told that his Dad had died in 1952.
    11) DCC's father died in August 1952.
    12) I sent pictures of DMS to the family in Scotland and was told they were almost certain it was the same man.

    Short of DNA testing which I am trying to get their agreement for, this does stack up fairly well I feel!

  2. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    I cannot trace an Ancestry tree for Cunningham Casey but there is one for Dominic Michael Stringer, dob 14/4/19, died 1986, this claims that he was in the FMP casualty list under number 1112401. Unfortunately, like so many Ancestry trees this is suspect. The Royal Artillery attestation shows this to be Denis Cunningham. POW returns give the name Denis Brennan Cunningham.
    CL1 and daisy1942 like this.
  3. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Thank you Tony,

    I was told that "Cunningham Casey" appeared in a Casey family tree. There is a partial and very old tree on Ancestry (under the name of Stringer/Bridgeman?) that shows some of the information I had at that time for Dad. At that time I thought he had been born in 191 as this is the year of birth given on the partial CRS10 I have.

  4. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member


    given that the questions that I asked this morning were based on the assumption that the man involved had changed his name for nefarious purposes and, having looked at all the verifiable facts, I no longer believe that there is any credible evidence to suggest that Dominic Michael Stringer changed his name at any point in time. Further more, any assumption that he is the same man as Dominic Cunningham Casey, who shares a birthday but not year of birth with him, is not supported by any evidence and appears to be no more than a coincidence.

    Consider the known facts. In 1919, his name, given at birth was Dominic Michael Stringer. When he married in December 1940 his name was Dominic Michael Stringer. When he signed on to a merchant vessel in 1944 his name was Dominic Michael Stringer and when he left Bombay in 1945 as an Engineer in the Merchant Navy, his name was Dominic Michael Stringer. He was still Dominic Michael Stringer in Fulham in 1968 and unsurprisingly he was still Dominic Michael Stringer when he died in 1986 in Tower Hamlets.

    Consider this: I am not sure how long it takes to train and qualify as an Engineer in the Merchant Navy but I would hazard a guess that it years rather than months and a lot of that time would involve on board training during long sea voyages. We know that he was able to use the title Engineer in 1944 at the age of 24-25 and therefore must have completed his training and qualified as an Engineer. None of which precludes him from being in Singapore in 1941, the West Indies in 1942, The U.S.A. in 1943, Canada in 1944 and Bombay in 1945. The crucial point is that he did not need to change his name at any time in order to accomplish any of the above.

    My final thought is a slightly paraphrased quote from Albert Einstein which is, If the facts do not confirm the theory then the theory must be changed.

    Good luck with your research,

    Mr Jinks, timuk and Tony56 like this.
  5. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Hi High Wood,

    I should like to know if you have ever found a birth certificate for Dominic Michael Stringer dated 14/4/1919?

    I started this search way back in the early 1980's. I have tried both personal searches and online websites such as Ancestry. I have never ever been able to trace a birth certificate for him! Further the only "proof" I have for the year of his birth being 1919 comes from a partial CRS10. It is quite well known that people lied about their age to join up. Not content with researching just UK records I have looked for the name Dominic Michael Stringer in birth records all over the world.

    Further, the fact that pictures of Dominic Michael Stringer taken in the 1940's and 1950's were sent to the Casey family and they identified him as almost certainly (90%) Dominic Cunningham Casey.

    My research will of course continue.

    (Hazel Stringer)

    p.s. i am extremely curious about Michael Joseph Casey - where did you find out that he deserted? thank you
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  6. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    No, I haven't found a birth certificate for him for which there are two reasons, 1), I do not have access to Irish BMD records and 2), it is not my research project.

    I tried to help find evidence this morning to back up your various claims but there isn't any in the resources that I have access to

    However, what I did find was his date of birth in the transcription of his death records. I respectively suggest that you apply for a copy of his death certificate and see the evidence for yourself.

    First name(s)


    Last name




    Birth day


    Birth month


    Birth year




    Death quarter


    Death year



    Tower Hamlets

    Register number










    Record set

    England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007


    Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records


    Civil Deaths & Burials

    Collections from

    Great Britain, England
    Tricky Dicky and daisy1942 like this.
  7. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I do not have a subscription to Ancestry but if you search for Irish Birth Records on Ancestry and enter Dominic Michael as the Christian name, Stringer as the surname and 1919 as the date of birth, they say that they have one record.

    Perhaps, someone with an ancestry subscription can access it for you.
  8. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I dont pretend to understand some of the presumptions and the internet is now flooded with them but is this relevent ? I have searched for the ship name and cannot find a mention if its been posted before please ignore.

    timuk likes this.
  9. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Yes, that is the document that Tricky Dicky posted on another thread. The ship was the Monarch of Bermuda.

    If you have an Ancestry subscription can you please look up Dominic Stringer in the Irish birth records so that we can put this to bed?

    Thank you,

  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hello Simon theres nothing showing up on that Irish record ? The more I search the more I find the waters have been `muddied` !

    Theres these though discharge details for a D W Stringer maybe a typo?;-
    R890272 STRINGER D W | The National Archives
    National Archives
    R890272 STRINGER D W
    BT 372/3027/37
    Description:R890272 STRINGER D W
    Date: 1913 Jan 01 - 1972 Dec 31
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Former reference in its original department: R890272
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
    Restrictions on use: To access this record please contact the Enquiry Service (via our contact webpage or staff in the Reading Room)
    Access conditions: Open on Transfer
    Record opening date: 21 October 2003

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
    daisy1942 likes this.
  11. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Hi All,
    As Hugh said ".... but it can be quite confusing for everyone who is trying to help as the request is on lots of sites on the web with little bits added here and there and a full list of the known facts is I suppose only with Hazel...."
    I can only apologise for the piecemeal way this research has been conducted from the start. However, when I began this quest back somewhere in the 1980's we knew Dad had grown up in Glasgow and had two potential years for his birth. We knew he had been at Singapore, we knew he married in Barbados in 1943 and other than a few half remembered stories that he told, we knew nothing! It was not possible to be logical in my approach as i did not know which of the stories would bear fruit. Maybe one day I can write the full story!
    Hugh MacLean likes this.
  12. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    I have a copy of Dad's death certificate, I went to his funeral. Sadly, Dad's death was reported to the authorities by his then girlfriend who had not known him terribly long. She gave them the information she believed to be correct as it was what Dad had told her.
    A quick search online shows that civil registration in England and Wales became compulsory in 1874. In Scotland the date was 1855 and in Ireland 1864. Granted that registration was likely t be erratic in the early years, the likelihood of a baby escaping being registered in the early twentieth centrury is very unlikely. Therefore there ought to be a birth certificate somewhere for Dominic Michael Stringer. There is not!

    Regarding the entry on Ancestry for him I shall gladly check again. I have had a semi professional genealogist research this at the Irish BMD and they have been unable to find him. Indeed, i have searched my self in the past. As such records are often corrected and updated I can only try again and see what i find.
  13. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Thank you Kyle,

    i have made a note of this and will research it on my next visit to Kew

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  14. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    This right here is what is troubling me with your research methodology. It seems that whenever a concrete fact is presented you provide an implausible reason to dismiss it Could you post a copy of the actual death certificate so that we can see who provided the information?

    As to the original Irish birth certificate, the Ancestry search engine states that the have a birth certificate for Dominic Michael Stringer dated 1919. As I do not have a subscription I cannot see whether they do or not, but I do not understand why they would state that they have such a record if it doesn't exist.
  15. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member


    this must be a coincidence as our man could not have enlisted in the Merchant Navy in 1913 as he wasn't even a twinkle in his father's eye in 1913. We also know that his age on the 1945 passenger list was stated as being 26 which gives a birth year of 1919.

  16. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Hello Simon,

    I searched those Irish records but the search facility does not provide any hits? At least not when I tried last night ?

    I agree the MN record is most likely a coincidence however just to clarify it does not state he enlisted in 1913 ? The record File covers the period dates
    1913 Jan 01 - 1972 Dec 31.

    This is a bit of an assumption here but are we aware that Dominic M Stringer is recorded in all the London election registers from 1946 onwards . I`m sure we will be (on another thread perhaps?)


    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  17. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    Kyle, you are correct re BT 372 it is the file range. Looking at the Dis. A number I would suggest this man was born about 20-25 years or so later than the man we are researching here.
  18. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    High Wood.
    You state, "''... what is troubling me with your research methodology. It seems that whenever a concrete fact is presented you provide an implausible reason to dismiss it ...."

    Here are some "concrete facts":
    1. My original questions on this thread were concerning DEMS gunners, not the question of Dad's birth.
    2. We had a number of conversations with Dad's girlfriend, who freely admitted she had NEVER seen a birth certificate for Dad and the information she supplied to the Registrar was based on what Dad had told her.
    2. Why should you doubt that she made this registration?
    3. I have spent best part of 40 years trying to find this birth certificate and not found it.
    4. Apart from myself, my husband, at least 3 different professional genealogists have searched for a birth certificate in this name without success.
    5. A professional genealogist based in Dublin and who has the full Irish Ancestry membership checked this for me this morning and it does not appear.

    I hope this finishes any comments/questions about Dad's birth. As I stated on this thread I am hoping to have DNA tests completed which should confirm this one way or the other!

    I should like to thank everyone for their interest in my quest and the suggestions they have made to further it.

  19. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member


    here are some more provable facts. Dominic Michael Stringer died in 1986 leaving a death certificate that stated the date of birth was 14th April 1919. There is no Irish or Scottish birth certificate for anyone named Dominic Michael Stringer.

    Dominic Cunning Casey (Scotland's people's spelling) was born in 1922 and married Elizabeth Smith in the Possilpark area in 1941. There is no Scottish death certificate for Dominic Cunningham Casey.

    So the situation is that we have one man who wasn't officially born and another who is not officially dead, if he has even died at all.

    So, even if there is some remote possibility that the latter adopted the false identity of the non existent former sometime after 1941 and continued using that identity until the day he died, there will be no documentary evidence that he did so. Any 'evidence' that you do find will be based on circumstance or hearsay and will lead to even more dead ends and more wasted time.

    Many members of this forum have tried to help you but each and everyone of your assumptions has lead nowhere. Dominic Stringer was not in the Royal Artillery during WW2, he was an Engineer on a Merchant Vessel, he was not a D.E.M.S. Gunner, or a P.O.W. captured at Singapore and very likely not a member of the U.S. Coast Guard as many of your threads have suggested.

    Please follow up the known facts such as his career in the Merchant Navy, particularly his engineer training as there will be paperwork somewhere that may provide a lead.

    Good luck,

    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  20. daisy1942

    daisy1942 Junior Member

    Hi Simon,

    Finally you agree with me “there is no Irish or Scottish birth certificate for anyone named Dominic Michael Stringer” in spite of your previous assertions.

    Dominic Cunning Casey (Scotland's people's spelling) was born 14/4/1922 (I have his birth certificate) and married Elizabeth Smith at St Teresa’s RC Church, Possilpark on 30/12/1940 – I have the marriage certificate. Further, as stated previously DCC ‘s wedding certificate lists his occupation as Gunner RA. This marriage was annulled on 2/11/1951 by decree of dissolution on the order of the Lord Blades Ordinary on the grounds of his “presumed death” – I have a copy of the certificate. This is why there is no formal Scottish death certificate for Dominic Cunningham Casey. Categorically as this decree was ordered under section 5(1) of Scotland’s Divorce Act 1938, DCC is legally dead otherwise Elizabeth Smith would not have been permitted to remarry some years later, unless of course, she wanted to commit bigamy!

    So, according to you, the situation is that we have one man who wasn't officially born and another who is not officially dead. They have the same date of birth. The year 1922 was confirmed as DMS’s date of birth from pension records. The birth certificate of DCC and the marriage certificate of DMS list the same given names for their father. Further in both cases the mother’s name was Martha. Both mothers’ died in childbirth. I have one death certificate for DCC’s mother. Therefore, this is not based on circumstance or heresy evidence - these are provable facts complete with a documentary paper trail to support these points fully.!

    I have never stated categorically that Dominic Stringer was in the Royal Artillery during WW2, the paper trail states DCC was in the RA. Although Dad is listed as engineer on some of his merchant navy records this was not always the case. I have documentary evidence from a ships log, giving DMS by name as using a deck gun. Again, this is a paper trail. Finally, I take offence to the idea the DMS was not a member of the US Coast Guard. I have correspondence between DMS and his wife showing this to be the case – envelopes are complete with the original posting and censorship markings! Further I have a photograph of DMS in his US coast Guard uniform. The authenticity of this uniform was confirmed by the US Embassy in Grosvenor Square London during the 1980’s. As appoint of interest, DMS did not return post war from Bombay, he joined the ship in Port Said.

    FYI, I have tried to research DMS record in the Merchant Navy. I have a CRS10 that starts in May 1944. It shows his previous ship as Panamanian registered. The records for this ship are proving very difficult to trace because of the Panamanian Flag. They are not held in this country. DMS CRS10 is, for whatever reason not complete. It does not have a discharge number. If you would be kind enough to suggest where I might find details of his engineering training with the Merchant Navy, I should be only too happy to follow that lead. I note that you did not respond to my request for details of where you found the desertion records.

    I thank you for your interest. In explaining to you the information I have gained so carefully over almost 40 years of research has helped me clarify in my own mind just how much information I have managed to discover.


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