Conquered Europe or Wehrmacht - foreign tourists. photos to ID

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by raut, Jul 10, 2021.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    See what you can find on here.
    Suche (denkmalprojekt.org)
    I searched for "ZIMMER Karl" & got 64 results but none had a photo of that memorial.
    Might be worth doing a search for the other names too.

    12 results for "KRAMER Joh" still no luck.
     
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  2. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    The obelisk could be associated with the past Franco/Prussian conflict of 1870 where Alsace Lorraine departments where taken as the spoils of war after the defeat of France

    It could also be associated with Imperial Germany's loss of Alsace Lorraine from the Versailles Treaty after Germany's defeat in the Great War. (From my experience of travelling in Alsace Lorraine such German obelisks to both conflicts were to be seen as being defaced by small arms fire.)

    I would say that the location is in Germany close to its border, possibly more in the west than the east

    The blown bridge in post #112,as I see it could be from the Allied practice in 1940 of stemming the German advance thrusts or it could represent the same practice carried out by the Germans in their retreats and withdrawals. It could be in Brittany where there is abundant evidence of the blowing of bridges as the Wehrmacht retreated to Brest.

    The bridge shown could be a toll bridge as evident from what appears to be toll houses at one end of the bridge.
     
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  3. raut,
    If you could post a sharp close-up of the Monument to the Dead (obelisk) we could read the dates of deaths and then look up the databases of WW1 German casualties to find their place of birth, which would be the location.
    We need that info to narrow down thhe possibilities. For example, there are 243 "Karl Zimmer" in the list...
    Of course this side might show casualties from another war, as mentioned above, but the dates would still help.
    If WW1, this must be a small village because the list is very short.
     
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  4. "Joh." should be Johannes, or less probably Johan or Johann.
    Nik. = Nikolaus or one of its less frequent variants (Nikolas, Niklaus/Niklas, Nikolai/Nikolaj...)
     
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  5. raut

    raut Active Member

    Friends, I tried to increase.I don't think it got better. DSC07905.JPG
     
  6. Text reads:
    Es starben den Heldentod fürs Vaterland
    ??? ????? (maybe "im Weltkr.")
    1914-1918
    JOH. KRÄMER
    +. D. 30. (or 20?) JAN 1916
    KARL ZIMMER
    +. D. 9. NOV 191?
    NIK. ZIMMER
    +. D. 30. (or 20?) DEZ 191?

    Standard header for such monuments. The dates of death should help though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
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  7. First one is Johann Krämer, a Pionier, died on 30 Jan 1916, buried at Billy-Montigny cemetary, Block 5 Grave 66. Unfortunately no place or date of birth is given.
     
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  8. raut,
    I'm now convinced that the top of the text reads:
    "Es starben den Heldentod fürs Vaterland aus ??????", ?????? being the name of the place, so, if you can scan (not photograph) this part using different settings of the scanner for resolution, lighting, contrast etc. we should be able to read the place name. A photograph is not good enough because the focus and lighting are never optimum and spoil the result.
     
  9. raut

    raut Active Member

    The inscription you are talking about is as follows:"Es starben den Heldentod fürs Vaterland aus wieder 1914-1918" (They died a heroic death for the Fatherland from 1914-1918.)
     
  10. "wieder" ("again") doesn't make sense, unless one is James Bond :D

    And it does not match the writing either.
     
  11. raut

    raut Active Member

    Need advice from a person who speaks German grammar.
     
  12. Blutto

    Blutto Plane Mad

    Long shot, could it be Wlider? Its a name that comes up as a surname, but the only location I can find is in the Tyrol.
     
  13. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    I agree with Blutto: "Aus Wlider" ... which makes sense and means: "from Wlider"

    So the translated sentence reads: "They died a Heroic Death for the Fatherland from Wlider 1914 - 1918 ..."
     
  14. raut

    raut Active Member

    As I said, the photo with the obelisk was initially hopeless.Apparently, we will not find out the secret of this photo soon.
    Let's move on.The photo shows the remains of some kind of fortress.Certainly this is some kind of historical place.
    Please help me find out what it is and where is it?
    There is an inscription on the back of the photo.I decoded it as: Burg im Mauerwerke DSC07897.JPG DSC07915.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Could it be "Castle in stonework" from a basic translation.
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I suggest it might be
    Château de Quéribus
    Château de Quéribus - Wikipedia
    It might have looked different back in 1943.
     
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  17. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    I stumbled upon that one but discounted it as in the photo above there seems to be a wall running down the hill and I couldn't see that, I could just be imagining it in the photo or missing it on new maps/images
     
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  18. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Good point, what I thought was the wall was just rock...doh!
     
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  20. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96

    Excellent clue.
    Haynau is a city in Lower Slesia(Poland today) I guess the river could be the Oder.
    Foto Röder is German too. The large city would be Breslau, also Poland today
    Stefan.
     
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