How is it possible to tell from a mans service record if he was Conscripted or he volunteered. My subject was a Miner and his Territorial Army Record of Service paper says he enlisted 15.11.1939. He was born 1.4.1919.
Writing as a conscript I have never been able to find anything in my records that confirmed this. Ron
I think you can only go by his date of birth, work out when he would have been called up compared to when he joined. I have not seen anything on a service record to indicate this further. My Father volunteered for the RAF, i'm sure, to get some sort of choice over where he was going. He volunteered just over 6 months before he would have been called up. Regards, Nick
Hello Peter, Does it matter? The vast majority of service records say 'enlisted', but that doesn't answer your question. If he had ' joined' before 3 Spetmber 1939 I would have said ' Terrier' and volunteered. But he didn't join until later. So, either he volunteered later or was called up. Either was he had 'big bollocks'. He served, he did his duty and what more can you ask? Not sure our 'youff' would do the same now! Best, Steve.
My dad was a miner, born 1918, and volunteered for the TA, Border Regiment, so that he could volunteer for Churchill's 'irregulars' as I've heard them called. He was accepted, joined 10 Independent which became No.4 Commando. He ended up going back to the mines after demob - staying there until he retired. Well, he did come home occasionally.
My late father was conscripted in 1940 and in his Army paybook it says something like enlisted for the DOE (Duration of Emergency?) This presumably meant conscripts would be released once the war ended. But would volunteers also have this DOE proviso in their paybook, or would they have had to sign on for a set number of years? Maybe 'DOE' in a paybook gives a clue as the whether a man was a volunteer or a conscript.
It is my understanding that there were many volunteers in the early days but it was felt that they were a nuisance and so they were discouraged and in 1942 conscription really took effect when all enlisted were sent into the General Service Corps for their six weeks infantry training and examination to reduce the square peg in round holes - and were posted to where they were best suited from the Army's point of view…… for the DoE….. Cheers
Dad was enlisted into the TA for the 'Duration of the Emergency'. They were able to recall him for a few years after the end of the War if needed ... I remember being so glad when that time was up. Many people, for one reason or another, found themselves sent down the mines to take the place of those, like dad, who volunteered.
It's hard to account for factors like peer pressure but the TA route was, by definition, voluntary - with the date of attestation then being a good clue as to their motivation. Anyone joining much after their 18th birthday and once the prospect of war seemed inescapable would have been far more likely to have done so for self-determinatory reasons - as already implied by posts 3 & 5, a way of side-stepping the arbitrary pigeon-holing infamously associated with the conscription machine. My dad made no bones about enlisting on 15 Sep '38 for this very reason. To answer Tom's query, his pay book states: "Enlisted at Southall On 15.9.38 "For the :-- " * Regular Army. * Supplementary Reserve. " * Territorial Army. * Army Reserve Section D. " * Strike out those inapplicable. "For 4 years with the Colours and" <blank> "years in the Reserve." As for relevance (!), I've coincidentally just finished properly reading RA conscript John E Cross' 1942 book 'Fighting Lights'. Rather than take the TA route, he instead volunteered as an ARP stretcher bearer on the outbreak of war whilst awaiting his call-up which came through about a year later (giving plenty of scope for someone to still opt for the TA 2/3 months after war was declared). His first chapter is very critical of the differing attitudes of "the two main types of soldier - the Regular and the Territorial" towards his fellow inductees. Note the sarcasm in, "We swore no oath of allegiance. After all, we were only conscripts ! No attempt was made to instil any enthusiasm into us for the Army life." Steve Edit: Added WorldCat book link
Certainly not initially - hence Ernie Bevin's bright idea to plug the gap. Once in the Army, esp. deployed on home defence, it was extremely hard for an employer to then reclaim them - exactly the case with my draughtsman dad on the searchlights (not to mention his employer then having to re-apply for his release every 6 months or so) ! Steve PS: Just remembered, BTW, John Cross discussing several miners in his 1940 draft.
Thanks All. Maybe i should have mentioned at the top of the Army form under "Territorial Army Record of Service Paper" it says " of a man deemed to have been enlisted into the Territorial Army for the duration of the Emergency under the provision of the National Service (Armed Forces) Act 1939". So, with his age and date of enlisyment, conscripted? This man was also Border Regt, 6th Bn. Youre right it doesn't matter. I was just curious.
Dad was in the 6th, also. The date of enlistment rang a bell ... just checked ... same day as dad enlisted.
The reference to enlistment under the National Service (Armed Forces) Act 1939 clarifies it all. That was the Act which provided for WW2 conscription and was solely conscerned with conscription. Any man enlisted under that Act was necessarily and by definition conscripted, not a volunteer. As to whether the distinction matters, it depends upon one's appreciation of liberty. Anyone accepting the aphorism of Keir Hardie a century ago, "Conscription is the badge of the slave", will understand the difference between a bondman and a freeman.
From a personal perspective an interesting distinction for those of us trying to understand our relatives - who we thought we knew but because service in the war was never discussed we never truly can - just another bit of the ever expanding jig saw. Brian
I waited until I was 18 (1942) and conscripted, as I was ATC I expected to join the RAF, but there was a nine month wait for air crew - so I joined the army. What put me to shame was that a form mate of mine, Michael Kalms, volunteered for the RAF before he was conscripted and was the Flight Engineer on a Lancaster that didn't return from a raid early in 1945. He was a great guy and had so much to live for and I shall always remember him.
