CWGC headstone - not on website? 6344308 Cpl F Mitchell

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Ravrick, Sep 25, 2021.

  1. Ravrick

    Ravrick Senior Member

    Hi,
    this guy is buried in Brookwood cemetery, the details state a serving Cpl in the RWK, died Feb 1944, but his headstone is for a non war burial? I was asked by some Army recruits why is the headstone different and I don't know the answer, Any ideas?
    cheers,
    Rick
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    It is a non war dead headstone

    more info here
    CWGC Headstone Shapes

    But the one difference that attracts the most questions is the headstones that have clipped corners. These are used for service men and women who do not qualify for war grave status for example casualties who died outside the qualifying period or died outside of combat or a service related death


    The writing on the CWGC headstones
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Deleted - wrong person
     
  4. Ravrick

    Ravrick Senior Member

    Hi, many thanks, I just found it a little confusing as I am not sure what defines non war dead for a serving soldier during WW2 when I have seen many headstones in the local cemetery for soldiers who have died during WW2 through illness, traffic accident (killed by a civilian vehicle), suicide, tripping and falling down the stairs etc who all have CWGC standard wartime headstones. I am trying to find out where and when Cpl Mitchell died which may shed some light.

    Rick
     
  5. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Rick

    he could have contracted an illness not related to his service and died or his death as not related to his time in service

    death cert would inform you

    regards
    Clive
     
    vitellino likes this.
  6. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    If he died in service between 3 September 1939 and 31 December 1947,he should qualify for a normal CWGC headstone.

    Further. service personnel who have died not in service but from the effects of military service within the qualifying period are also entitled to a normal CWGC headstone.

    Judicial executions of servicemen also qualify for the normal CWGC headstone as do certain civilian dead

    The case in question seems odd given the CWGC laid down qualifications, which from the date of death of Cpl Mitchell are complied with.
     
    vitellino likes this.
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    We had one like this before.
    That one I think to man died after discharge but the family wanted a CWGC looking headstone.


    Maybe someone can look up 6344308 Mitchell on the casualty lists.
     
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    this one is in Willesden
    I see a few of them their death according to CWGC does not fall into the CWGC set criteria
    There is nothing wrong if you want to spend time getting death cert and any other detail you can to prove death was in service
    upload_2021-9-30_21-55-31.jpeg
     
  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Another one WW1 in Reading

    upload_2021-9-30_21-58-32.jpeg
     
  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    this one below formerly served in Ox and Bucks
    Aylesbury cem
    loads of them in the cemeteries around the UK

    upload_2021-9-30_21-59-52.jpeg
     
  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    This WAAF on war memorial in Welwyn but death outside of criteria

    upload_2021-9-30_22-2-49.jpeg
     
  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Fireman Mill Hill cem

    down as civilian death
    008 TEAGUE AJ - - 10/05/1941 CIVILIAN WAR DEAD
    Cause of Death: Injuries resulting from enemy action

    Current Fire Authority: London

    upload_2021-9-30_22-8-30.jpeg
     
  13. Ravrick

    Ravrick Senior Member

    Thanks for the replies, what is odd is that Cpl Mitchell is right in the middle of the WW2 CWGC plot in Brookwood, surrounded by standard headstones. There is also a plot of non war graves with this style of headstone. The other issue is I cannot locate a date of birth or full name for F Mitchell on FMP or Ancestry, he is not listed in any casualty lists. Maybe a RWK expert could shed more light?
    cheers,
    Rick
     
  14. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Wobbler likes this.
  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Rick many of them are like that
    I have seen dozens as per my examples above

    as suggested email CWGC there is always a story behind each one

    and the death cert with give you more info about his death


    regards
    Clive
     
  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Wobbler likes this.
  17. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949
    Name: F Mitchell
    Service Date: 1936-1939
    Service Place: Palestine
    Campaign or Service: Palestine
    Regiment or Unit Name: 2nd Battalion The Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment
    Regimental Number: 6344308
    31794_221592-00528 (2).jpg

    He was obviously in the Regt prior to 1936, so a regular, is it possible he was transferred to DEMS gunner work, as they are notoriously difficult to trace
     
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  18. Hugh MacLean

    Hugh MacLean Senior Member

    By 1944, all army DEMS gunners were in the Maritime Regt. R.A.
    Regards
    Hugh
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  19. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Nothing under that number.
     
    CL1 likes this.
  20. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    As F Mitchell does not appear in the CWGC records he also, as expected, does not appear in the War Deaths (Other Ranks) 1939-1948, see below:
    Mitchell Army 1.jpg
    It would therefore seem logical that he would appear in the Civil Death Registrations for Q1 1944, so presumably one of these:
    Mitchell Civil.jpg
    If F Mitchell left a Will (he may not have done) it should be in the Probate Records, there is this one, date of death one day out, but newspaper cutting reveals not him:
    Mitchell Probate.jpg Mitchell newspaper 1.jpg
    Note: Alfred Lewis Shrubsole, post #8, appears in civil death lists and he died in Roehampton Hospital.

    Interestingly Odell, post #9, does appear in the CWGC, his medical report states that his disability was not caused by active service but exaggerated by it.
    Casualty Details | CWGC
    Odell.jpg

    George John Harding, post #10, appears in civil death lists.
     
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