Have just snaffled myself a copy via Biblio for what looks a very good price. My brother is taking care of the other book you kindly recommended to me, George Aris’s history of the 5th Division, for Christmas, so I am looking forward to some very good reading. Cheers
I thought that my father's Brigade Commander and former Battalion CO, Pat Scott, summed up the campaign well when he wrote in May 1945.. "Poor old 'D Day Dodgers': they had a long fight for their money. What a long time ago, it seems since these early days in North Africa with the appalling discomforts of that campaign. It seems a long time, too, since the epic battles of Sicily and Southern Italy. How very few had seen them all. How few in the Rifle Companies, who had landed in North Africa were still with us to see the culmination of their efforts. One’s mind turned that evening to a lot of faces of old friends whom one would not see again. One hopes that they, too, were able to join in the feeling of satisfaction and thankfulness that the last shot had been fired..." My Dad's own journey from Algiers to Argenta had taken 29 months..and he certainly remembered George, Ian, Snootch, James. Kevin, Eddie, John and so many other friends and comrades when he reached the Po on 22nd April 1945... best wishes
Thank you for sharing that Richard. My grandfather was with the 92nd Field Regiment RA supporting 5th Infantry Division and saw action in Sicily and Italy. He had a long, busy war, from the BEF in 1940 right through to north-west Europe in ‘45. I had a sketchy record from the MOD of his service from 1993, but Frank kindly filled in some gaps for me on here and I have sent off again to the MOD and hope I will receive more detailed records of his service soon. I wonder if grandad ever fired a shot in support of your dad. It would be nice to think so, eh.
Song Lili Marlene British version on Lake Trasimeno Hi, I heard that the troops during the battle of Lake Trasimeno created a song on the notes of Lili Marlene if someone has the text of this version I'll be grateful if you can post a copy. Leonardo
Leonardo. I think that you are looking for Day Dodgers by Hamish Imlach on YouTube. The song was the result of Lady Astor, in June 1944 in the House of Commons in London, allegedly saying that the soldiers fighting in Italy were dodging the horrors of the Normandy Landings. In response, Hamish Henderson, an Officer in the Highland Light Infantry, wrote the words for the D Day Dodgers and set it to a Marlene Dietrich piece of music. It is a very bitter song. Regards Frank
I've just gone through Hansard, and think that if she did say it, it wasn't in the House of Commons. All the best Andreas
Two threads merged earlier post about Hansard D-Day Dodgers https://hansard.parliament.uk/about What is Hansard? Hansard is a “substantially verbatim” report of what is said in Parliament. Members’ words are recorded, and then edited to remove repetitions and obvious mistakes, albeit without taking away from the meaning of what is said. Hansard also reports decisions taken during a sitting and records how Members voted to reach those decisions in Divisions.
Leonardo. You might see a few variations in the words - according to which country was singing it. Regards Frank
I think the story originated because the MP, Viscount Astor received a letter from a soldier which was signed as " a D Day Dodger" This is the only reference I can find in Hansard - which confirms that Lady Astor denied originating the phrase. https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commo...ribution-4cc4ed68-5a70-45ac-ba0c-487bee021f92 There is an element of misogyny in attributing the story to her. She is a pioneering Tory woman MP, outspoken in her views in favour of temperance and womens rights and more than a bit antisemitic. She stood down from parliament in 1945 as her views were seen as contraversial. She did not get on well with her own party leader e.g. Her: "Mr Churchill if you were my husband I would put poison in your drink" Him: "If you were my wife I would drink it" I suspect its something that people would like to think she said. Its all a bit Edwina Currie or a pre social media twitterstorm. By the way the term was used with some pride. One of the sporting memoirs - IRRC Joe Mercer footballer and football manager mentions playing for an Eighth Army team and being cheered on with calls of "Come on the D Day Dodgers"
Interestingly, Lady Astor's views on temperance were well known. Mixing in the same social circles as WSC she was always at daggers drawn with him over his drinking habits. Recorded is an event which took place at one of these social gatherings where Lady Astor declared, Winston, you are drunk, to which he replied, I may be drunk but you are ugly but in the morning I will be sober but you will still be ugly. Some have attributed this to an interchange between Bessie Braddock MP and WSC which is difficult to accept since Bessie Braddock did not circulate socially with WSC.
If you go through Hansard you will notice that there are some questions on casualties and events in Italy, which are to me an indication that someone had said something untoward, and instead of engaging with it directly, thereby giving validity to the statement, Lt. Col. Eliott made the point on the costliness of the campaign in a different way. https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commo...ribution-74a1105e-effd-493f-8889-b70449b18398 All the best Andreas
The quote concerns an exchange between Bessie Braddok and WSC in the House of Commons rather than a social engagement. Plus WSC's quote is more likely to refer to Bessie Braddock than Mary Astor, about whom the remark is debatable and No I don't have swimsuit pictures of either damsel. I can't believe I have reduced ww2talk to something approaching the level of ARRSE's NAAFI Bar and MILFs ...
To be honest I don't care whether or not Lady Astor said what is attributed to her, the thing is that the "D-day Dodgers" song became the unofficial anthem of the forces in Italy and I'm proud to be the son of a D-Day Dodger who served from Alamein to the Adriatic.
