First of all; My apologies to the author, Philip Vickers, for suggesting, elsewhere on here, that I thought this little book may be rather " Janet and John ". I'd said that before I'd even received it. But, the moment I opened it, I was delighted and intrigued. Maybe it's not exactly the sort of depth of coverage some of you hardened students require? But, for a raw recruit to the subject, such as myself, it was great! Plenty of photographs of the characters discussed, so I could get a better mental handle on them. And, most surprisingly of all; It turned out to be a literal 'Tour Guide' of the 2nd SS Panzer Divisions route to Normandy! I never realised that's what it was about. Still a most enjoyable read and taught me a lot an in easy to grasp and follow manner. Now, two questions: The first may be better fitted under 'Battlefields', but I don't want to spam the forum. So; Has anyone actually driven the route, as instructed in this book? That sounds an absolutely fascinating project to undertake. Secondly; Stadler. The author seems to lay the ultimate blame for Oradour-Sur-Glane pretty squarely at his feet. Almost as if to allow that Diekmann was 'just following orders'. I'd rather come away with the impression, before and elsewhere, that Stadler was in fact the 'good guy' in all that and was rather disgusted and angered to learn of the atrocity. Anyone ....?
Steve, There's quite a bit of info here http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ww2-battlefields-today/15031-bike-trip-oradour-sur-glane.html and here: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ww2-battlefields-today/16921-massacre-tulle.html Cheers Andy
Steve, I've read extensively re this, accounts from both sides and have never seen Stadler portrayed as the villain , no orders were given by him to Diekmann to do what he did at Oradour and Stadler was so shocked he was instigating court marshall proceedings against him. For me the great tragedy of Oradour in particular was that most of 3 Kompanie DF were frenchmen from the Alsace. cheers Paul
I put a threadin somewhere Steve on Christian Tychsen who commanded Das Reich's panzer REgiment - I think there are also some photos and info on Diekmann and Kampf who was kidnapped and killed - he was a friend of Diekmann it seemed to spark the Oradour killings.
Cheers, lads. Good responses I must say, reading all this stuff, it amazes me just how much I seem to have soaked up about the Tulle / Oradour events along the way. In fact, thinking about it, I suspect it might have been my reading 'Drews (linked to above) thread about Oradour which led me to follow other links, spend two entire nights reading the 'official' site and thus germinating the seed of fascination with Das Reich in the first place. That, of course, has since managed to focus itself yet more, so that I've now narrowed my 'personal subject' to the Einsatzgruppen type units ~ from where I branch back out to explore the Camps and SS. Goes to show, eh? Andy; I'm gutted to have to report that ye photo's never unfurled further than the apexes of the buildings, for me Not an unusual thing for me, sadly. My damn, so called 'Connection', I suspect. Obviously, I've seen much of the two locations, elsewhere on the net. But, it would've been nice to have got ye personal perspective along with ye report. Either way, I envy ye something rotten for having been there in person! Frankly, having read the (actually rather excellent!) book, I'd dearly love to 'do the tour' myself. However, I don't drive a motor and suspect attempting it with my horse and cart wouldn't be too wise! Paul; Nice to see 'an expert' on the subject agreeing with what I've formed as my own, picked up, opinion. There we go, see? I'm already getting so into my subjects I've dared to publicly question an Author on it and appear vindicated! I'll be bragging about this over a pint for years to come! James; I agree entirely that it would seem to be Kampfs' abduction and murder that set Diekmann off. I also get the impression that the stuff about the " Mutilated German corpses " was bullshit. Probably something Diekmann threw in as an after the event attemp at justification. Just to return to Stadler for a moment; Would I not be about right in my memory that he was actually a Wermacht Officer, in the main, who had somehow latterly become 'seconded' into the SS? I believe I'm on the right track there? Only, it would offer a nice juxtoposition of the two attitudes, no? Poor guy never really fit in, because he simply wasn't enough of a complete and utterly amoral bastard. Anyway, I'm off out for the evening. It's been a great pleasure to find myself discussing these subjects with you seasoned 'veterens' of the field of study and actually finding I have more than just a clue about much of what ye all saying. Thanks to all for the most enjoyable conversation
Ah! Cheers, James. I obviously just got my wires crossed somewhere there then. So, I guess, he was SS through and through then? Just seems to show that even They weren't CAUAB's through and through, eh? I guess our man, Stadler somehow slipped through their screening processes
Vestel Stadler was a highly decorated career Waffen SS Officer who was highly regarded by his officers and men , must admit i have never seen anything written about him other than he was an honourable commander, cheers Paul
