"Days of Infamy" is an alternative history book written by Harry Turtledove based on "what if" this one being the amthibious invasion of Hawaii. We know that Admiral Nagumo turned back but would stay if ordered to, esp to protect the troops landing on Hawaii. So what would happen? We know that 2 American Carrier task forces were' probably on their way right after wards one commanded by Admiral Halsey. Now was it 6 or 3 Japanese carriers at Pearl? Either way, in the book The USS Enterprise and Lexington were sunk with only the Soryu slightly damaged, and the "famous doolittle" raid could only do little since if America had lost Hawaii could only do it to Hawaii being the only place in range. Holding Hawaii would also mean from what Harry writes and from what I believe would hold America right where they were on the West coast and be unable to stoip the Japanese at Midway or Guadacanal. Days of infamy is written in POV mode of several characters book historical and fictional. historical ones would be Commanders Fuchida and Genda, both able commanders in their own right (the book has Genda suggesting the land invasion of Hawaii) and has the view point of American's under the occupation of the Japanese as well as Japanese Americans. It is a really Amazing book and the sequel is being written, (it finished off with a Midway type battle but reversed where America lost 2 carriers and 1 heavily damged to Japan with 2 lightly dmg and one heavily dmged under the Command of Yammamoto), and the setting up of the Kingdom of Hawaii as a Japanese puppet. I really suggest it as a good read for anyone interested in AH.
Days of Infamy is not alternative history, whatever that means. It is not history. It is a novel. Fiction. It is not worth commenting on as a serious work. If alternative history is fiction does that mean alternative fiction is history.
Six carriers in Nagumo's task force, and Turtledove (likely a pen-name) writes a line of alternative history books. He did one with Richard Dreyfuss in which the American War of Independence never happened, and I think he also did a line where space aliens attack Earth amid World War II. He also has a line of books in which the Confederates win the Civil War, gain their independence, and fight all over again in World War I style in the early 1900s. The British and French back the Confederates and the Prussians/Germans back the Union. Amusing stuff, but remember, it's alternative history. There are whole web pages on the subject, and oceans of such "what-if" novels. One of the wierder ones is Len Deighton's "SS-GB." It's a typical Deighton thriller, every person in it dealing double and mixed motives, heavy on technology, difficult to follow, as subtle as a jackhammer. The book opens with the text of the British surrender to Germany. It's a mirror of the German surrender to Montgomery on Luneberg Heath.
"Alternative History" is a work of fiction that deals with an historical event but alters it for purposes of being both academic "what-if" and entertaining (alot of people don't give a damn about history because its "boring" so to speak, but I find that AH helps reinforce the lessons of history by showing us what would happen otherwise) I don't know why you have such a negative view of AH Sappernz, its fascinating stuff.
Ryuujin may be I was a bit harsh. I think what annoys me is the use of the term history when calling such work a good old fashioned novel would be more apt. I have read many of such books and agree they are fantastic reads, well most are , and I have truelly enjoyed them as works of fiction. I realise that its probably nitpicking its just that I prefer history to be written as truethfully as possible. Mind you it may be someone in the future discovers something that shows our concept of history to be alternative and the alternitive true , but as Capt Mainwaring said, " I think we're getting into the realms of fantasy now Jones."
I have not read this particular novel, but I have read many of Turtledove's novels and he is an excellent writer as well as a highly credentialed historian. That he has made his money writing in this genre should not detract from his credibility. Admittedly, I am a fan, but I understand that his novels are only his opinion of the "what if" scenario, or maybe even just the storyline he finds most intriguing, if not the most plausible. I think the fact that he IS an actual historian makes these books all the more interesting. Other historians, such as Newt Gingrich, have written novels in this genre. The term "alternate history" is abit of a misnomer, but this "genre" was created by the publishers & criritcs to distiguish it from historical fiction, which is fiction set in actual historical context. One of the things I have always found so mesmerizing about history is that it's not just about facts, dates, & names, but rather choices people make at pivotal moments. These novels are one way to explore these choices and their consequences. And, for what it's worth, Turtledove is actually his real name, although he has written a few novels under the nom-de-plume of "Harry Turtletaub". Don't be too quick to judge, give him a try!
Originally posted by nolanbuc@Apr 5 2005, 06:01 AM I have not read this particular novel, but I have read many of Turtledove's novels and he is an excellent writer as well as a highly credentialed historian. That he has made his money writing in this genre should not detract from his credibility. Admittedly, I am a fan, but I understand that his novels are only his opinion of the "what if" scenario, or maybe even just the storyline he finds most intriguing, if not the most plausible. I think the fact that he IS an actual historian makes these books all the more interesting. Other historians, such as Newt Gingrich, have written novels in this genre. The term "alternate history" is abit of a misnomer, but this "genre" was created by the publishers & criritcs to distiguish it from historical fiction, which is fiction set in actual historical context. One of the things I have always found so mesmerizing about history is that it's not just about facts, dates, & names, but rather choices people make at pivotal moments. These novels are one way to explore these choices and their consequences. And, for what it's worth, Turtledove is actually his real name, although he has written a few novels under the nom-de-plume of "Harry Turtletaub". Don't be too quick to judge, give him a try! [post=32898]Quoted post[/post] I did read his book "The Two Georges," and he is a good writer. I was not suggesting otherwise. I'm just surprised to learn that his real name is "Turtledove."
Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Apr 5 2005, 10:19 AM I did read his book "The Two Georges," and he is a good writer. I was not suggesting otherwise. I'm just surprised to learn that his real name is "Turtledove." [post=32911]Quoted post[/post] Oh, not at all, I was just trying to mention that he is a competent historian also. And I'd have to agree, Turtledove is an unusual name, especially for a writer of military fiction.
I'll be purchasing this book tomorrow- it sounds like a great book to read. -edit- Bought the book, about 25 pages into it. I love how they depict Yamamoto and Genda at the beginning. "If alternative history is fiction does that mean alternative fiction is history." Of course not. Define what you mean by alternative fiction anyways. -update- I finished reading the book, it was great. Now that I see what Turtledove was probing at , following up Pearl Harbor with the third wave of atttack + a landing would have probably been the best choice for the Japanese... That way, Hawaii would have acted as a 'shield,' to protect Japan's newly annexed areas
