Desert Transport: 4 Lines of Communication / 569 Transport Column

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by Kuno, Jan 4, 2014.

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  1. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    Although my current little book project is an excursion to the war in Europe in 1944... the main focus remains in North Africa.
    I am looking for information regarding a heavy transport column:

    The unit has a (for me) somewhat strange name "4 LoC" (Lines of Communication). It was equipped with heavy MACK trucks and involved in the supply convoys from Wadi Halfa to Kufra in 1941.

    Later on it was employed along the coastal road from Egypt until the end of the desert campaign in Tunisia. There it seems to have been called the "569 Transport Company" (or rather "column"?)

    Would anybody know something about them?
     
  2. Aixman

    Aixman War Establishment addict Patron

    The transport unit BELONGS to the No. 4 L. of C., which is the "parent". There were also No. 4 L. of C Signals and so on.
    So you should concentrate on the unit itself. My guess is rather column than company.
     
  3. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

  4. DaveB

    DaveB Very Senior Member

    Probably not much help, but just had a quick look at the AWM collection using search terms Kufra or Wadi Halfa and besides a few framing shots of Aussie units moving around Wadi Halfa there were a couple of nice ones of Kufra (including a surprise following on from Skip's recent thread):

    PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN AT EITHER KUFRA OR SUVA OASIS, 1939-1945. MEMBERS OF THE LONG RANGE DESERT GROUP AT THE PRESENTATION OF TROOPER R.J. MOORE (NEAREST CAMERA) WITH A DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT MEDAL, (DCM).

    http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P00491.001



    1941-02. ROAD CONSTRUCTION WORK IN PROGRESS IN THE WADI EL KUFRA WHERE THE AUST. ENGINEERS ARE REPAIRING THE DAMAGE DONE BY THE RETREATING ITALIANS. (NEGATIVE BY F. HURLEY).

    http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/006492/
     
  5. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    Thanks for the hints so far. Now I start to understand "4 L.o.C."...

    PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN AT EITHER KUFRA OR SUVA OASIS, 1939-1945. MEMBERS OF THE LONG RANGE DESERT GROUP AT THE PRESENTATION OF TROOPER R.J. MOORE (NEAREST CAMERA) WITH A DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT MEDAL, (DCM).

    > This photo was neither taken at Kufra nor at Siwa (not SUVA) but most probably at the barracks in Cairo - no such buildings as seen in the background have existed at Kufra or Siwa.

    1941-02. ROAD CONSTRUCTION WORK IN PROGRESS IN THE WADI EL KUFRA WHERE THE AUST. ENGINEERS ARE REPAIRING THE DAMAGE DONE BY THE RETREATING ITALIANS. (NEGATIVE BY F. HURLEY).

    > A wrong location is given here. There is nowhere a "Wadi el-Kufra" especially not near Kufra oasis. But the correct name should read "Wadi el-Cuf". This is a spectacular Wadi in Cirenaica, nearly 1'000 kms north of Kufra oasis.

    [Unfortunately the archives seem to be hesitant (if not ignorant) to revise the captions to their photos if they are made aware about potential errors...]
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    War Diaries for 569 Coy RASC maybe worth looking at.


    569 Coy.
    • ROYAL ARMY SERVICE CORPS. COMPANIES. 569 Coy.
    • 01 July 1942 - 31 December 1942
    • :WO 169/6062
    569 Coy.
    ROYAL ARMY SERVICE CORPS. COMPANIES. 569 Coy.
    • 01 January 1943 - 31 December 1943
    • WO 169/11972
     
  7. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Couldn't find any WDs for the relevant period though and none at all of 569 Res MT Coy.

    My Discovery-Fu is weak today.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  8. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    Thanks for these links - hopefully the WD for 1941 pops up one day...
     
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Kuno, the fact the diaries start in July 1942 suggest to me this is either a brand new unit or a new unit title. The 1941 diary may be listed under another unit name.

    Andy
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    There may be a clue in this one, but it only covers December 1941

    WO 169/2214 Royal Army Service Corps: 4 Line of Communication Transport Column (LoC Tpt Col RASC) December 1941
     
  11. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    I'm not so sure. They may simply have lost the WD or misfiled it. I can only find the Dec 41 WD for 4 LoC as well, but it is mentioned in 13 Corps G Branch WD for October 1941 under that name. So there should be a WD for October and November as well, at least, but there doesn't seem to be one.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    You N. Africa guys are better placed to know what was happening at the time than me, so it being destroyed or lost in the fighting is always a strong possibility. I still think the 569 Coy was under a different name or didn't exist. I have all the WO 169 Diary refs on Excel and there are few and far between, as far as RASC Coys go in 1940/41 compared to the ones listed in 1942.

    A
     
  13. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    ...give me some time and I may find some unit markings on photographs...
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Here is a list of all the WO 169 War Diaries available at Kew in the link below, see post number 14 and you can download the Excel Sheet to your PC. There's some other African Campaign series listed too. They are in formation and year order as a rough guide. I appreciate that some of the file names are a little thin on detail but you can cut and paste the file ref number into Kew's Discovery search engine for a bit more info on a specific file.

    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/24834-the-national-archives-catalogue-on-excel/?hl=excel
     
  15. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    Attached a photo of one of their White (or Mack?) Trucks.

    There are no unit insignia shown on the trucks employed between Wadi Halfa and Kufra. Only the photographers truck has the word "OTAZEL" painted on the bumper... difficult. The crew is all white - so no SDF.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    After being absent from the "case" for a longer time, I went trough the photos I have again - and could not find any other nformation which would bring me a step further :-(
     
  17. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    I had a look into the "advert" to the photo album (why did I not do this long time ago?) and found the following statement:

    "Two albums belonging to a Mack driver of 4 L of C Company (Lines of Communication) involved in the Kufra supply convoys of 1941 onwards. Two sections of 4 LoC were involved, the sections in 1942 being formed into 569 General Transport Company."

    Would this ring a bell somehwere? (The seller had no further information that time)
     
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    "4 L of C Company" doesn't make sense in RASC terminology - it would have to be a something company but I think that Drew had it right in post #10 - It will have been 4 L of C Transport Column. There would have been a CRASC (Commander RASC) with troops allocated to HQ but it would have been made up of various companies, principally General Transport Companies.

    The background to both the Arm of Service sign and the GHQ MEF formation sign is clearly the diagonally split red / green of RASC.

    Hodges & Taylor's 'British Military Markings' includes some surviving lists of Arm of Service serials but as GHQ formations were not standardised, there was no single War Office allocation of numbers. However, they list No. 2 L of C Transport Company and various subordinate units as part of 15th Army Group. The serial 2264 does not appear but 2263 was allocated to 563 General Transport Company, 2269 to 650 and 2267 to 657 GT Company so there is no reason to doubt the 569 General Transport Company attribution.

    The distinguishing white diagonal bar running top left to bottom right is a post September 1943 introduction and indicates GHQ or command troops (L of C used the opposite direction). Taken in conjunction with the formation sign, the markings would seem correct for a General Transport Company attached to GHQ.

    In order to find more detail, I think that you're going to have to go fishing in the WO169 GHQ diaries and hope to find a mention.
     
  19. Kuno

    Kuno Very Senior Member

    ...thanks, Rich; I think the answer is to be found in WO169 as you say. It appears I am opening again a "pandora's box"...... :)
     
  20. Richard G

    Richard G Junior Member

    The Mack trucks could be flat bed heavy transport trailer trucks, used as tank transporters although I have seen a pic of a captured damaged ME109 on one
     

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