Did any parachute troops drop near Pegasus bridge on D-Day?

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by donohue100, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Great isn't it... The Seaborne Sappers got there minutes before the relieving party Headed by Piper MIllen. The Sappers quite enjoyed the spectacle But we got there before the Commandos....... But you will not read that in the media.....
     
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  2. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hey Sapper,
    About the seaborne, I just speak about the rest of the 249th, not about the other Sappers. The 249th must waited the end of the fight in Douvre-la-Délivrande before move to the bridges.
    Cordialy,
    Xavier
     
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  3. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hey Cee,

    Finaly, just "The Pegasus Diaries", extract of the Five-Year Diary of Major Howard, refers to that.
    Another book "Le commando du Pont Pégase" written by Norbert HUGEDE refers to a reduction of 2 engineers.

    Conclusion, there is a lot of version...

    The search continues...

    Xavier
     
  4. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hey Cee,

    Is it written in one of these books that it was decided at some time to load more than 30 soldiers (30 = 2 pilots, 23 Ox & Bucks, 5 Sappers) by gliders ?
    Because, otherwise, how to explain that by reducing the number of soldier by two in each glider, we obtain the same number, 30 ?

    Regards,

    Xavier
     
  5. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Xavier,

    I had the same thought as well, but haven't yet run across reference to numbers as high as 32 or 33 total. The attached drawing from 'A'P.2453 Vol.I Section.4' was found on a hobbyist site. The normal loading number according to that was 26 troops and 2 pilots but could be extended to 29 troops and 2 pilots when lightly equipped. All the gliders on D-Day went with a total of 30 except except for the one with 31.

    There are some knowledgeable GPR types on Forum who will correct me if on the wrong track.

    Regards ...
     

    Attached Files:

  6. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hey Cee,

    In the document below, only 19 soldiers Ox and Bucks appear to have been in the glider n°4.

    WO 208_3348 I.S.9_WEA_2_35_87 Pte. L.G. Allwood 2 Oxf & Bucks L.I. (IS9).doc
    From topic "2 Ox & Bucks Airborne & PoW help".

    Capt Priday Ox & Bucks
    Lt Hooper Ox & Bucks
    Sgt Barwick Ox & Bucks
    Cpl Bateman Ox & Bucks
    Cpl Goodsir Ox & Bucks
    Cpl Ambrose Ox & Bucks
    Cpl Hunt Ox & Bucks
    Pte St. Clair Ox & Bucks
    Pte Hedges Ox & Bucks
    Pte Whitford Ox & Bucks
    Pte Wilson Ox & Bucks
    Pte Everett Ox & Bucks
    Pte Waite Ox & Bucks
    Pte Lathbury Ox & Bucks
    Pte Clive. Ox & Bucks
    Pte Hammond Ox & Bucks
    Pte Timms Ox & Bucks
    L/Sgt Rayner Ox & Bucks
    Pte Allwood Ox & Bucks

    Where are these other soldiers ?

    Pte Johnson
    Pte Gardner
    Pte Jeffrey

    Another interrogation, never the men of this glider went to Ranville Bridge, they just went to outskirts of Escoville to wait their battalion. In this case, how the L / Sgt Brown could have taken the Ranville bridge ?

    It is very hot in France...

    Regards...

    Xavier
     
  7. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Xavier,

    Lance-Corporal Lambley ("D" Company Headquarters, Company Clerk) is also missing from the Allwood escape report list. He was present as Capt. Priday mentions him in his account of what occurred at the Dives River Bridge. Would the list come from an official source or were they the only names that Pte. Allwood could recall - I don't know? I noticed as well there were a few men missing in the E&E report by Pte. Chamberlain for Glider No. 1.

    According to Pte. Allwood his group was separated from the Capt. Priday party and made straight for Escoville. Priday I believe made it to Ranville in the early hours of June 7 and reported to Major Howard. So no none of the troops on Glider 4 would have made it to Horsa Bridge on June 6th.

    Lots of rain and moderate temperatures in my part of world at the moment ... :)

    Regards ...

    Edit: Horsa or River Orne Bridge
     
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  8. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    In his account (http://www.lightbobs.com/1944-pegasus-bridge-coup-de-main.html), Captain Priday confirm the presence of L/Cpl Lambley, private Johnson and his batman (or runner, what is the difference ?) private Jeffrey.

    Now, where is private Gardner ? I don't know, but...

    ...I just find there is two "Gardner".
    One in the glider n°1, (who survived the war) : http://www.pegasusarchive.org/normandy/Biog/John_Howard_3.htm

    And the other in the n°4 (who died on 14th December 1944) :
    https://fr-fr.facebook.com/393166910813107/photos/a.393169424146189.1073741828.393166910813107/533385096791287/

    My theory collapses slowly...
     
  9. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Xavier,

    Here's another showing left to right Pte Frank Gardner, Capt Brian Priday and L/C B.H. Lambley all with No 4 Glider. If you look carefully you will notice the French girl in both photos, so taken on the same day. The IWM gives a date of June 15th on the large group shot. As for location I've come across Le Port, Herouvilliette, and outside La Glycine Restaurant, Benouville. Benouville seems the most likely from all the comments in your Facebook link.

    B5586-Pte Gardner, Capt Priday, LC Lambley.jpg B5585-IWM.jpg

    In some nominal rolls both Gardners have the same spelling. The Pegasus Archive spells it Frank Gardener for the one on Glider 4 and Will Fowler in his book says,"The spelling of Pte Charlie ‘Gus’ Gardner in 25 Platoon (Glider No. 1) in some sources is given as ‘Gardener’? The last 2 digits of an army number is sometime shown for soldiers with the same name.

    Regards ...
     
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  10. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hey,

    Just a precision about private Frank Stuart Gardner who was in glider n°4, he was killed during Varsity on 24/03/1945. Sorry for the precedent mistake.

    Good day to everyone.
     
  11. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Xavier,

    The man pictured below looks like Pte. Frank Gardner from the Company photo.

    Pte Frank Gardner.JPG

    Denis Edwards has quite a story concerning a Pte 'Col' Gardner in his book. I wonder if it's the same man?

    "... ‘Col’ was an eccentric upper class character, with a public school speaking voice, but who was without any wish or ambition to be identified with the officer class, or even to accept promotion. He preferred to serve as a private soldier, which he did until his death in Germany in March, 1945. He was nicknamed ‘the Colonel’, or ‘Col’ for short, because of his upper class background. ‘The Colonel’ and I later shared an interesting experience near the end of our Normandy expedition, which is mentioned in Chapter 6."

    Regards ...
     
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  12. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    I am back, it's clear now !
    And finally, how many soldiers were cut by Major Howard to reduce the weight of the Horsa glider, one or two ?
    Xavier P
     
  13. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Xavier,

    I don't know to be honest and my head is still spinning from re-reading the thread ... :)

    For the sake of simplicity let's say they planned on filling every seat available which would be 31 according to the seating plan above. In that case they would have knocked off one man per glider except for No. 3 which carried Medical Officer Major Jacob-Vaughn who replaced someone with a sprained ankle. For some reason no one else was cut which left the total passengers at 31 on that glider. To have originally planned to carry more that 31 is really pushing it in my opinion. But who knows maybe they thought they could squeeze them in?

    Did you ever find out more on the 249 Sappers that jumped with 7 Para?

    Regards ...
     
  14. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hi Cee,
    I found that in the war diary of the Headquarter Royal Engineers :
    "One L/Sjt and 4 sappers of 591 Para Sqn RE to drop with 7 Para Bn on DZ "N" at P-4 hrs 30 mins and assist them across R ORNE and CAEN canal to establish a bridgehead on the WEST bank of the canal. For this purpose 7 Para Bn were to carry down in kitbags 30 "J" type RAF dinghies and climbing ropes as ferry lines."
    It's not the 249th...
    Regards,
    Xavier P
     
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  15. Malcolm Ford

    Malcolm Ford Member

    Hi
    I have a copy of the original BIGOT -TOP SECRET orders for the 12Bn (Yorkshire) Parachute Reg and it states the following:-
    6Pls.2 Oxf Bucks L.I. Seize bra intact (h-5 hrs)
    7 Para Bn Secure Bridgehead on West Bank
    12 Para Bn Secure Bridgehead on East Bank
    13 Para Bn Secure Ranville and clear and protect D>Z and L.Z
    It is not clear but it appears the actual Parachutists may have landed prior to the gliders !
    My uncle was in the 12 Para Bn and was killed in the Battle Of Breville on the 12/6/44 if any one has any info I would be very glad to receive it.
    Regards
    malc
     
  16. PRADELLES

    PRADELLES Well-Known Member

    Hi Malcolm,
    6 gliders landed on Pegasus Bridge.
    And after the parachutists landed to securize the landing zone for the gliders.
    I have a document to explain that better, but I could send it to you in the evening.
    Regards,
    Xavier
     
  17. Malcolm Ford

    Malcolm Ford Member

    Hi Xavier
    Any info would be appreciated it amazing so little has been written about the 12th. The Para museum At Duxford is useless when you visit there is hardly any thing to do with the above I did not even see details of the only battle honour they won for Breville. Put my Uncles details in their computer system zero came up! Many years ago I visited the museum when it was at Aldershot and met Major Frost
    legend I told him that I was going to give the few bits of original paperwork etc medals (normal 0nes) to the Museum at Pegasus Bridge and he asked me not to do that as the French Government has laid claim to all the contents of it !
    Kind Regards
    malc
     

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