E R COULDREY - No. 8 Commando

Discussion in 'War Against Japan' started by Paul Johnson, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. Paul Johnson

    Paul Johnson Member

    Edwin Robert COULDREY
    830703
    Lance Bombardier
    No. 8 Commando & Royal Artillery
    Missing 18th August 1942 aged 27

    Ted Couldrey was born into a soldiering family in 1916 the youngest son of Catherine Couldrey of Hellards Road, Stevenage. His father had died from his wounds whilst in action during the First World War. Ted was educated at the Stevenage Boys School and later worked at the ESA factory. He joined a local unit of the Territorial Army and later went on to serve with the Royal Artillery as a regular soldier and saw active service in both the North West Frontier of India and in the Middle East. He was preparing to join the South African Police Force when the war broke out and returned to England where he was stationed at Folkestone. Ted was aparently one of the first to volunteer for the Commandos and, after training, was sent to Burma in 1941. In a last letter home he described how he was “going native”, an expression used to explain that he was about to embark on a jungle patrol. He is believed to have become a Japanese POW whilst operating behind enemy lines and may have been murdered by his captors. He has No Known Grave and his name is recorded on the Rangoon Memorial, Burma. (Face 2)

    Can anyone confirm this and provide a little more detail on his final fate?

    PAUL JOHNSON :ph34r:
     
  2. No.9

    No.9 Senior Member

    Sorry I haven’t replied to this earlier Paul, items headed ‘Japan’ tend not to draw my attention, my interests being mainly centred on the Mediterranean theatre. I can see why difficulties can easily arise when looking for this No.8 Commando in Burma 1941/42 as No.8 never went to Burma and casual histories probably state they were disbanded in 1941.

    The first Commandos were formed in the summer of 1940 after Dunkerque. No.8 Commando came from Army volunteers based in London and the Home Counties, predominantly from the Guards. They became part of 'Force Z', (under Lt. Col. Bob Laycock - who was also the CO of No.8) together with No.7, No.11, one Troop of No.3, Roger Courtney's’ Folboat section (who evolved into the SBS) from No.6 and the amalgamated Nos.50 and 52 Middle East Commandos, whom they met up with when they arrived at Geneifa via Suez in March 1941. If your Commando was ”one of the first to join”, this would have been in 1940 and he would have been part of Layforce.

    As ordered, to remove all traces of Commando references the force were renamed ‘Layforce’ and the units redesignated as infantry battalions of Evetts 6th Division.
    No.7 became A Battalion, No.8 = B, No.11 = C and No. 50/52 = D

    The object of Layforce, which was Laycock’s idea, was the invasion of Rhodes. On 6th April Germany invaded Greece and Yugoslavia and the operation was cancelled. Until mid May, Layforce was now used to conduct various raids in North Africa except No.11 who went to Palestine and then Cyprus to bolster defences. In mid May, Nos.7 and 50/52 were placed in tactical reserve, leaving No.8 at Mersa Matruh to continue dealing with N.African raid assignments.

    On 20th May, Germany invaded Crete which was in danger of collapse. General Freyberg, Crete Allied commander, believed he could hold out if they could get back the airfield at Maleme. The job was given to Nos.7 and 50/52 who found the situation such, and ensuing developments, that ultimately they covered the general evacuation. Adhering to this duty, by the time they were ordered to evacuate and made their ways to the beach, few boats were available. Out of some 800 men only 179 officers and men were evacuated though some others did manage to sail back in a landing craft powered by a sail made of blankets sewn together with boot laces.

    In mid June, Wavell ordered Layforce were to be disbanded as he believed the remaining men would be better used as replacements in line companies rather than attempt to make the Commandos back up to strength or downsize them. No.11 were excepted at this point and were to continue duties at Cyprus. However, by this time they had suffered 123 casualties during an assignment to take and hold three crossing points over the Litani River in Palestine, to facilitate the advance of the 25th Australian Brigade.

    Even though Layforce officially ceased to exits on 1st August 1941, the break-up started in June. The Commandos had some choice on their future. Technically all Army Commandos were volunteers from their original regiments and could return to them if they were in the region. They could apply to be transferred to another active Commando, or, apply for (or be headhunted by) another specialist force which could use their talents. In the case of David Stirling from No.8, he had his proposal for a new desert raiding force approved and so founded the SAS, taking a number of Layforce Commandos with him.

    At this point I’m going to don my Deerstalker and make a deduction. I think your man joined the remnants of No.7 who were assigned to an operation, secret for many years, named ‘Mission 204’.

    Mission 204 was a programme to aid the Chinese fight their Japanese invader. Japan may have been fighting China since 1931, but this was summer 1941 and as yet had not declared war on the Allies or the US and would not until that winter. Japan had already allied itself with Germany, had made designs of French Indo-China and had made Britain close the Burma Road (for 3 months) to deprive the main supply route to its Chinese enemy. Britain, the US, Holland and Russia had been aiding the Chinese for some years to varying degrees at various times.

    Though the Chinese outnumbered the Japanese and, as Nationalist leader Chaing Kai-Shek told Churchill, had enough ammunition for a year’s fighting, the Chinese soldier was no match for the Japanese. The men of 204 were what nowadays we’d term ‘Military Advisors’. A team of experts in guerrilla warfare, (No.7 Commando), set-up Bush Warfare School in Burma and there trained a small force of selected volunteers, some from Australia, in their destructive arts.

    Once conversant, men made their way into China to pass the instruction on to the Chinese. Precisely what occurred, whether the men of No.7 stayed at the school or went to China and whether they took part in any actions themselves (in China or later in Burma), I don’t know? I believe the men at the Bush School totalled 250, and a document from that time, at the website below, refers to three units of 50 men each at one Chinese location, of which one was Australian.

    There are several books about 204, none of which I’ve read so cannot offer an opinion. The only piece I’ve found on the web is an article from the Australian Government site dealing with little known operations referring to their men in ‘Tulip Force’.

    The address for the page is http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/farflung/index.html which, for me, doesn’t seem to be easily accessible? However, below is an extract.

    ”Mission 204 - 'Tulip Force'
    A small group of Australians from the 8th Australian Division was posted to the Bush Warfare School in Burma in 1941. The men were trained in demolition, ambush and engineering reconnaissance during October and November. The two officers and 43 men became part of 'Tulip Force', a top-secret mission to train Chinese guerrillas to fight the Japanese. The British provided equipment, supplies and the remainder of the men. In February 1942, the men travelled in trucks up the Burma Road towards China for 18 days, covering over 3000 kilometres. From there they travelled another 800 kilometres by train into China before trekking into the mountainous border region to join the Chinese 5th Battalion commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel Chen Ling Sun. They travelled with eight tonnes of equipment and their explosives were packed into small square coolie baskets and carried with them.

    The Australians remained in the mountains with the Chinese guerrillas until September 1942, when the project was abandoned. The Australians did not participate in any of the Chinese guerrilla activities; they suffered from malaria, dysentery and typhus; and they had no confidence in the Chinese commander under whom they were to serve.”

    Hope this clears a few things up.

    No.9
     
  3. Paul Johnson

    Paul Johnson Member

    No.9, WOW! & A Big Thank You.

    I could not have wished for a more detailed response to my request. It certainly will help me in my research. I had searched the PRO for info on 8 Commando but, as you explained, there was nothing after 1941 and certainly no mention of being in the Far East.

    The statement about him being one of the first to join the Commandos comes from an article in the local newspaper but I am aware that these can be a little unrealiable in their content.

    When you consider the fact that Mission 204 was in the Burma region between Feb & Sep 1942 then it is possible that Couldrey was amongst their number. Given that they would be hundreds of miles from any allied units then this may explain why his name is recorded on the Rangoon memorial, as there may have been no way of identifying or marking his grave.

    Your help is greatly appreciated, Thank You again.

    Regards

    PAUL JOHNSON :ph34r:
     
  4. No.9

    No.9 Senior Member

    Very welcome Paul. Obviously the men of No.8 went on to other things and many stayed in a Commando role and several stayed together. Officially though there was no more No.8 after July.

    Quite likely he was one of those who volunteered in the summer of 1940, but No.8 didn’t immediately go to Africa though they did some 6 months later. I’ve edited my post as it might have been a bit ambiguous on this point?

    I can see the scenario of the Crete Commandos returning to Africa where No.8 were, and receiving the news they were all to be disbanded. No.7 got the news they were going to the Far East, probably being told no more than it was a ‘special mission’ as it was Top Secret, which caught the imagination of some of the others who asked to go with them? The surviving senior office of No.7 was also ex Royal Artillery, so perhaps Couldrey knew him?

    He may have been captured, or he may have died from illness? Either way, given the circumstances, climate and conditions I doubt if there was any feasible option to a jungle grave?

    I have an idea Mission 204 started before No.7 was sent, and continued after? I’ll have 50p it was the cover term for British aid to the Chinese – just a fancy, (something else to look into at the PRO). :rolleyes:

    Anyway, the file below looks like the boy, but who is ‘Denny’? :huh:
    WO 193/602 Denny's Mission (204 Military Mission) 1940 Nov 24- 1943 Sept 23

    I also like the look of this Foreign Office file, hmmm……………? :)
    FO 371/31712 China Commando Group 1942

    No.9
     
  5. Paul Johnson

    Paul Johnson Member

    Ahh! Haa!, Where have I heard the name Denny before?? Must serch through my notes.

    I will certainly pull out these files on my next PRO visit (next week).

    Your respones underline the whole purpose of thse Forums(both WW1 & WW2), The sharing of knowledge & information on matters related to the wars.

    You have saved me hours of search work at the PRO and provided me with a way forward when I was at an apparent dead end. Hopefully, I can do the same for you and other forum members in the future.

    Kind Regards

    PAUL JOHNSON :ph34r:
     
  6. No.9

    No.9 Senior Member

    Bit more for you Paul. Speaking with a mate who was in Burma with No.1 in 1943, he knew of 204 China and said when he was in Burma, an ‘old boy’ of their Troop who had volunteered for 204 met up with them. I mentioned 204 being No.7 only, more or less, and his opinion was that while the remnants of No.7 as a whole volunteered (as they were at low numbers after Crete), the Mission was posted in general asking for volunteers. Hence while No.7 provided the largest number of men and the commander, Commandos from various units volunteered.

    If he’s right in this opinion, it certainly explains why a man (or men) of No.8, and other Commandos such as the above example of a man from No.1, were in 204.

    No.9

    P.S. where do I send the invoice? :D
     
  7. Paul Johnson

    Paul Johnson Member

    No.9,

    Thank you once again for the info, and I think you are probably right about the make up of 204.

    I'll let you know if I come up wiyth any further data, or confirmation that Couldrey was with 204.

    Thank you very much for all your help

    PAUL J :ph34r:
    (Can Offer You Coffee If Ever You Are At The PRO?? :D )
     
  8. No.9

    No.9 Senior Member

    Oh well, if ever I go to pull the 204 file and it's out, I may be able to guess who's got it! :rolleyes: :D

    No.9
     
  9. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

    Hi,

    I just thought I would add some notes on members of No. 8 Commando.

    Recently read Christopher Syke's biography on Evelyn Waugh, both were members of No. 8 Commando.

    As was Brian Franks (2 SAS), Lord Lovat, David Stirling (SAS), William ‘Bill’ Stirling (2 SAS), Eric Barkworth (2 SAS and War Crimes Unit), Phillip Dunne Military Cross, George Jellicoe (SBS?), Randolph Churchill (Churchill's Son), Dermot Daly (amateur steeplechase runner), Peter Milton, Robin Campbell, Harry Stavordale.

    Evelyn Waugh fictionalised his war time experience in his War Trilogy which was dramatised as Sword of Honour starring Daniel Craig as Guy Crouchback (You can see it on 4od). In the adaption it shows a soldier shooting an officer which supposedly happened when Waugh was on Crete with No. 8 Commando.

    Evelyn Waugh was the Intelligence Officer and later would be with Randolph Churchill in Yugoslavia.

    Would anyone know of any archive documents relating to No. 8 Commando? There are a few war diaries in Kew but as it was an army commando unit, I have been told it there would not be any documents relating to the unit in the Royal Marine archive.

    brithm
     
  10. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Hi,

    I just thought I would add some notes on members of No. 8 Commando.

    Recently read Christopher Syke's biography on Evelyn Waugh, both were members of No. 8 Commando.

    As was Brian Franks (2 SAS), Lord Lovat, David Stirling (SAS), William ‘Bill’ Stirling (2 SAS), Eric Barkworth (2 SAS and War Crimes Unit), Phillip Dunne Military Cross, George Jellicoe (SBS?), Randolph Churchill (Churchill's Son), Dermot Daly (amateur steeplechase runner), Peter Milton, Robin Campbell, Harry Stavordale.

    Evelyn Waugh fictionalised his war time experience in his War Trilogy which was dramatised as Sword of Honour starring Daniel Craig as Guy Crouchback (You can see it on 4od). In the adaption it shows a soldier shooting an officer which supposedly happened when Waugh was on Crete with No. 8 Commando.

    Evelyn Waugh was the Intelligence Officer and later would be with Randolph Churchill in Yugoslavia.

    Would anyone know of any archive documents relating to No. 8 Commando? There are a few war diaries in Kew but as it was an army commando unit, I have been told it there would not be any documents relating to the unit in the Royal Marine archive.

    brithm
    This might intrest you. No. 8 Commando
     
  11. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

    Thanks for the No. 8 Commando link. Shame there is not an osprey book on this unit. Would be a great help.
     
  12. Assam

    Assam Senior Member

    I am just thinking out loud here but but there are a couple of questions & with no disrespect to the initial poster, sometimes facts handed down are actually lore.

    To confirm at least part of the thread, if he received the Pacific star with Burma Bar, he was in either Malaya / Singapore in the 1st instance. If only the Burma Star he was there in 1941.

    If there in '41 could he have possibly have been invited to join Force 136?

    Or is commando the only option?

    His service file should be available now (at least to NOK)

    regards

    Simon

    1
     

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