Help I am planning at trip to Rome at easter and would like to visit the areas that my grandfather served Like i think alot of veterans he never really talked about the war but this is what i know Harry Walker East Surrey Regiment Was in the battle of monte cassino and the italian campaign Tunnisia Greece The hard thing is to try and locate where the east surreys were in the battle the internet does not make it easy If i read it correctly They were in the 4th battle at a bridge head on the river rapido Any more infomation would be very helpful. I would like to find where he was? I may as well ask for more info on the regiment, did they go up to florrance? thanks james PS why did we not talk more when they were alive and younger I think he said they all got blessed by the pope in st peters is that true and he also said General Mark Clark caused the war to carry on longer, he had not a good word for him This is my 1st post
Welcome James - the Italian experts will post a response in a while - not many thought much of Mark Clark who was an egocentric publicity hound, the best way to find a day to day account of his unit would be to look at the war diaries at the National Archives at Kew.
James, Hello and welcome to the forum. There is a lot of information regarding the Italian campaign, just use our search facility at the top of the page. There is a also a "D" Day Dodgers section to interest you. Regards Tom
Hi James ! Welcome to the forum. Here's one answer for you: I think he said they all got blessed by the pope in st peters is that true This often happened, even for non-Catholics, although the day that I visited the Vatican the Pope was not at home Have fun with your research, there are lots of knowledgeable members who will be glad to help you. Ron
James, As I'm sure you know, the 1st East Surreys formed an integral part of 11th Brigade (along with 2/Lancashire Fusiliers and 5/Northamptonshire Regiment) within the 78th Division from their landings in Algeria on 7th/8th Nov 1942 to the final capitulation of German forces in Italy at the start of May 1945. As others say, the precise details of each campaign over those 2 1/2 of most difficult years can be researched by detailed review of the war diaries, but sufficed to say 1/East Surreys had a rather eventful time in Tunisia, Sicily and Italy including: Landings near Algiers - Nov 7/8 1942 The initial attempted push to Tunisia - Nov 1942 Resisting the German counter attack at Tebourba - Dec 1942 Defensive actions in Tunisia near Bou Arada - Jan/Feb 1943 Assault towards Tunis - Easter 1943. Capture of Tunis - May 1943. Landings in Sicily - Jul 1943 Attack on Centuripe / pursuit to Randazzo - Aug 1943. Landings at Taranto - Sep 1943. March on Termoli - Oct 1943. Attack over the Trigno / Sangro River - Nov / Dec 1943. Winter defences in the snow near Castel Di Sangro - Jan 1944. Transfer to Cassino sector - Feb 1944 Mountain month overlooking the abbey - Mar/Apr 1944 4th Battle - May 1944 Pursuit north of Rome to Trasimeno - June 1944 Trasimeno battles - late Jun 1944 Rome relaxation - Jul 1944 Cairo / Alex - Jul / Aug 1944 Attacks on the Gothic line north of Florence - Oct / Nov 1944 Winter in the mountains - Jan - Apr 1944 Breakthrough the Argenta Gap - Apr 1944. I know all of this because my father also followed it with the 38th (Irish) Brigade - he was 15 days late in the initial landings but followed the rest of the route. In terms of meeting the Pope, my father met him twice in early June 1944 (amazingly 100 men were taken out of the line for the day) and also in early July 1944. Rather amusingly the troops who were blessed included quite a few staunch Orangemen - the story that my father told me was hilarious. I'm sure Pope Pius had a production line of visitors. If your father spent the month on the overlook of Cassino monastery, it was probably one of the most difficult weeks of his war. I don't think that East Surreys were directly involved in the assault on the right hand side of the 78th's line at Cassino from 15th May 1944, but I'm sure you'll turn the exact detail up from the war diaries. A couple of books to look out for to gain a full rounded (Allied) view of the period. Fred Majdalany - Cassino Portrait of A battle (1957) Cyril Ray - The History of the 78th Dvision (1952). These are quite difficult to get hold of and there is a more updated narrative of the 78th Division by Ken Ford, Battleaxe Division. Sorry for the monologue - I'm sure you knew most/all of it but it is still worth repeating it at some length and rememembering what these men had to face, and of course some of them contribute to this web site. Richard
James - as Richard points out - it's a case of all of the above - plus their stint in Austria rounding up the bad guys and taking part in the Vienna Tattoo which enabled 2000 schoolchildren to have a six weeks holiday in the countriside for some good food and fresh air.......NO British Division did more in the fighting from Algiers to the Alps - with the 1st and 8th Armies. your trip might be better starting at Sicily as the situation in Algeria and Tunisia might be a bit difficult for some time ! Cheers PS - get a hold of yet another book - John Ellis' "Cassino - The Hollow Victory" - good report on the Surreys
James, Welcome to the forum. You may already know about the about the Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment's website, but you can find a copy of a transcribed book on the 1st Surrey's in Tunisia, and some information about their activities at Cassino and in Italy. The regimental collection of historic documents, books and photograph albums is at the Surrey History Centre in Woking: Surrey History Centre 130 Goldsworth Road Woking Surrey GU21 6ND Tel: 01483 518737 So if you live close you may want to pop in. They can help point you in the right direction for information.
hi thanks for all the information about the east surreys Could anyone be more specific on what they did in the 4th battle of cassino? Which bridge they were involved in the bridgehead and where it is located hopefully James
James - I would hope that you have a good map of Italy to hand - that being so then look at the area of Aquino - Pontecorvo - that is the general area for the 78th Div to come through after the crossing of the Rapido - the bridge ( Amazon ?) was first crossed in the 8th Indian Div sector by the 17/21st Lancers of the 6th Armoured Division - the 78th and 4th British- also involved were the 1st & 5th Canadian Divisions - the 78th then pushed on to Ceprano - Arce and Frosinone -but the war diaries will give you verse and chapter on all that... Cheers
Hi James, The map attached below from http://www.remembrancedaysong.com/pilgrimage.htm, will give you a rough idea of the position of the East Surrey's, part of the 4th Infantry Division, along the Rapido. I am not sure if there was an actual bridge, check out this reference; CHAPTER 20 — The Break-out Into the Liri Valley | NZETC, it will give you some details of the Surrey's involvement. As will this map which details the 4th Infantry Divisions attack on 11-12 May 4 British Division’s operations, 11–18 May 1944. The bridges over the Gari River are given their code-names | NZETC. Hope this information helps. Mark
James, Just to clarify, there were two battalions of East Surrey's present at Cassino during May 1944. 1st Bttn who were part of the 78th, and 1/6 Bttn who formed part of 10th Brigade within 4th Infantry Division. Your reference to Greece (after the German surrender) suggests you're actually interested in 1/6 Bttn's movements. The map attached might shed light on 1/6 East Surreys' crossing of the Gari (Rapido) on the night of 11/12 May at the outset of the 4th battle. I've read an excerpt of the first stage of their assault, which is paraphrased below. As mentioned previously to get a full blow by blow with exact grid references, the war diaries would be the best source. Richard ACTION. 1/6 East Surrey's led the advance of 10th Brigade across Orinoco and Rhine crossings (on the map) - the bridges were not built until the next day. The initial objective was Brown line which was 1000 yards beyond and parallel to the river. A/D Coys secured footholds on the western banks, but due to mist / smoke (++) both companies walked into a minefield, and suffered many casualties. B Coy crossed without losses but only advanced 200yds. C Coy followed. A/D were then joined by C on Point 36 (see map again) under intense machine gun fire. Bttn HQ crossed but remained near to the river bank. C/D Coy took Point 36 in a bayonet charge capturing 24 prisoners and 13 machine guns. After B were repulsed at Point 63 (see map) the entire battalion consolidated near Point 36. They held that position throughout that day and night (12th). END.
