East Surrey Regiment - Anzio Feb 1944

Discussion in 'British Army Units - Others' started by David643, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. David643

    David643 Junior Member

    My father-in-law served with the East Surrey Regiment from July 1943 to Feb 1944 when he was transferred to the Sherwood Foresters at Anzio. A few days later he was taken prisoner by the Germans and eventually confined at Stalag Luft VIIA.

    I do not know which Battalion of the East Surrey's he served with at Anzio. From his POW MI19 Questionnaire he states that he served with the 1st British Infantry...but this does not, immediately, help me to identify the East Surrey Battalion.

    Please can any Forum users who have knowledge and expertise in Anzio or East Surrey Regimental hsitory research help me by advising which East Surrey Battalions were at Anzio. I would like to consult War Diaries at TNA - but need to know more details before ordering the documents

    Thank you very much for any help offered

    David
     
  2. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    Only two East Surrey Battalions, as far as I know, served in Italy: 1st with 11th Brigade, 78th Infantry Division and 1/6th with 10th Brigade of 4th Infantry Division but none of them were in Anzio.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    I didn't think there were any East Sureys at Anzio.
    He must have been sent as a replacement.

    2 Sherwoods were in 1st Div,

    >> 1st Division
     
  4. idler

    idler GeneralList

    David,
    Are you sure he wasn't West Surreys (Queens)? From their history: 2/6 Queens, 169 Bde, 56 Div:
    "During the night of 27/28th Februarythe very exhausted 2/6th Queen's were relieved by the Sherwood Foresters of the 1st Division and moved to an immediate reserve position west of Flyover. One platoon under Lieutenant B. Carney was so isolated that it could not be relieved , and continued to fight gallantly in its position for another twenty-four hours, in recognition of which Lieutenant Carney received the M.C."

    That's only going off the single mention of the Sherwood Foresters in the index. Perhaps your FiL wasn't transferred, but was 'under command' in the isolated platoon. That ticks a few of the boxes - can you rule it out? It would be interesting to see Carney's citation.

    The East Surrey's history does not have 'Anzio' in the index...
     
  5. David643

    David643 Junior Member

    Only two East Surrey Battalions, as far as I know, served in Italy: 1st with 11th Brigade, 78th Infantry Division and 1/6th with 10th Brigade of 4th Infantry Division but none of them were in Anzio.
    Thank you Sol for your reply
    Rgds
    David
     
  6. David643

    David643 Junior Member

    I didn't think there were any East Sureys at Anzio.
    He must have been sent as a replacement.

    2 Sherwoods were in 1st Div,

    >> 1st Division
    Thank you Owen for your message
    Regards
    David
     
  7. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    My father-in-law served with the East Surrey Regiment from July 1943 to Feb 1944 when he was transferred to the Sherwood Foresters at Anzio. A few days later he was taken prisoner by the Germans and eventually confined at Stalag Luft VIIA.

    I do not know which Battalion of the East Surrey's he served with at Anzio. From his POW MI19 Questionnaire he states that he served with the 1st British Infantry...but this does not, immediately, help me to identify the East Surrey Battalion.

    Please can any Forum users who have knowledge and expertise in Anzio or East Surrey Regimental hsitory research help me by advising which East Surrey Battalions were at Anzio. I would like to consult War Diaries at TNA - but need to know more details before ordering the documents

    Thank you very much for any help offered

    David

    DAvid, any chance you could post a name / service number ?
     
  8. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Any photos to post?

    When I read mention of Sherwood Foresters I presumed it must be them he was with at Anzio, as the East Surreys were not there.
     
  9. David643

    David643 Junior Member

    Hello Phil and Paul

    Thank you for your replies.

    Details are - David George Watson - DoB 4.11.1921 Service number 14636643
    Transferred to the East Surrey Regiment and posted to No 12 Infantry Training Centre 29.07.43
    Transferred to the Sherwood Foresters and posted to 2nd Battalion 20.02.44
    Reported missing 28.02.44
    Confirmed POW - German Hands 28.02.43

    David gives East Surrey Regiment as his unit on the MI19 POW questionnaire as well as place of capture as Anzio. My wife has his East Surrey cap badge and the only "uniform" photos we have of him are when serving with the Royal West Kent Regiment as a Home Guard prior to joining the regular army in 1943 (62 Primary Training Centre)

    At the weekend my wife worked through the War Diary for the 2nd Sherwoods (National Archives - Kew) for Jan to March 1944 but there is no mention of David - despite references to "other ranks" joining and leaving the 2nd Bttn - as well as those "missing in action"

    Any help or guidance you are able to give is most gratefully recieved

    Thank you
    David
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Seems like you've already done what I was about to suggest.
    So he was a re-enforcement sent to 2 Sherwoods & you've read the war diary.
    Looks like he was with them for a grand total of 8 days!
    Not alot else I can suggest.
     
  11. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  12. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Apologies for the red herring over the Queens.

    The way I read it now, it makes more sense if he was trained in/by the East Surreys but got posted to a different regiment at the sharp end; that happened a lot. If you only have extracts of his service record, it might be possible to reapply and ask for a full copy (there was a thread recently along those lines, I think). That may help fill in some blanks as it should track his movement between here and there.

    I can give you one hard fact: No.12 ITC was based at Canterbury and served the East Surreys and the Buffs. The numbered ITCs were formed from pairs of Regimental ITCs that had originally been based on the Regimental Depots.
     
  13. David643

    David643 Junior Member

  14. David643

    David643 Junior Member

    Apologies for the red herring over the Queens.

    The way I read it now, it makes more sense if he was trained in/by the East Surreys but got posted to a different regiment at the sharp end; that happened a lot. If you only have extracts of his service record, it might be possible to reapply and ask for a full copy (there was a thread recently along those lines, I think). That may help fill in some blanks as it should track his movement between here and there.

    I can give you one hard fact: No.12 ITC was based at Canterbury and served the East Surreys and the Buffs. The numbered ITCs were formed from pairs of Regimental ITCs that had originally been based on the Regimental Depots.
    Thank you for the information about training with one regiment and then serving with another. My wife recalls MiL speaking of travelling to Canterbury, from the Medway Towns, to see David.

    There was some family mention of David undertaking commando training in Scotland -as yet I cannot see where that may have fitted into his service record details.

    I will look into the posting you mention about obtaining Service Records. We have a letter from the MoD at Bourne Avenue in 2001 giving details of movements, conduct, testimonial, medals, next of kin and description - height and weight etc. It would be pleasing to obtain a copy of the original if this is available to my wife as next of kin

    Regards
    David
     
  15. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    David, hope this helps

    Name: D. G. Watson
    Rank: Private
    Army Number: 14636643
    Regiment: Sherwood Foresters
    POW Number: 132982
    Camp Type: Stalag
    Camp Number: VII-A
    Camp Location: Moosburg An Der Isar, Bavaria, Germany
     
  16. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    David, I suspect that the next port of call is I am afraid another visit to Kew to look though the POW files, which ADM199 may be able to give you a heads up on the file number.

    Phil
     
  17. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    What a pity I didn't get the message earlier as I have just arrived Home from Kew. The Computers at Kew don't allow acess to the Forum or I would have been able to look for the Liberation Report. If he made one.!!!
    Looked for four today but only one existed.
    The File you need is WO344/335/1.

    I am back at KEW again on the 1st if that is of help.

    Brian
     
  18. David643

    David643 Junior Member

    David, I suspect that the next port of call is I am afraid another visit to Kew to look though the POW files, which ADM199 may be able to give you a heads up on the file number.

    Phil
    Thank you Phil for your posting and helping me with this enquiry

    Rgds
    David
     
  19. David643

    David643 Junior Member

    What a pity I didn't get the message earlier as I have just arrived Home from Kew. The Computers at Kew don't allow acess to the Forum or I would have been able to look for the Liberation Report. If he made one.!!!
    Looked for four today but only one existed.
    The File you need is WO344/335/1.

    I am back at KEW again on the 1st if that is of help.

    Brian
    Thank you Brian for your kind offer to check the MI.9 report. We were lucky at an earlier visit to find the report. David gives his service number as that shown by Phil in the above posting - the regiment is given as the East Surrey's and the place of capture is Anzio. He also refers to the British 1st Infantry when answering question 3 about "Division (Army)"

    We have applied to Geneva for a copy of his Red Cross POW papers - but don't know whether this will assist us with any more information than we have at the moment.

    Noting your one in four success rate today at Kew - I realise how fortunate we have been in finding David's questionnaire.

    Regards
    David
     
  20. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Sadly David not all P.O.Ws made Reports when Liberated.

    If there is one series of Files that should be available online is is the WO 344.

    Brian
     

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