El Tahag Camp

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by BrayDunes, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. BrayDunes

    BrayDunes Junior Member

    So I know El Tahag Camp was passed through by numerous units in the MEF. Does anyone know where in Egypt it was located exactly? I can not find 'El Tahag' on a modern atlas and can not find a map online that has the camp situated. I believe it was about 40 miles from Cairo. Can anyone shed some light on this? My grandfather was there in August 1943.
     
  2. BrayDunes

    BrayDunes Junior Member

    Just found some more information that it could have been at Ismailia?
     
  3. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Bray,

    From various sources - El Tahag is 20 miles west of Ismailia and about 5 miles east of Tel-el-Kebir. So it must be somewhere along that road? Perhaps not too far from El Qassasin (or El Kasasin)

    See this thread and extensive discussion on El Qassasin's location:

    help with ww2 service record - WW2Talk

    A quote:

    "The troops detrained about dusk at El Qassasin, a village on the Sweetwater Canal, and reached the tented transit camp at El Tahag in transport vehicles about half an hour later"

    Regards ...
     
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  4. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Have Tahag camp as this, it may be of help : "............ from Port Tewfik by train to El Quassassin and thence onto Tahag camp, a huge tented area 40 miles from Cairo. At Tahag the battalion was visited by the Prime minister Winston Churchill.........."
     
  5. BrayDunes

    BrayDunes Junior Member

    Cheers guys, through this thread and elsewhere i've got a pretty good idea of where it would have been now.
     
  6. jravincent

    jravincent New Member

    I have a photograph of my father, shirtless with shorts, with another man, similarly dressed, on the back of which is written in pencil: "El Tahag, Apl 41." My father was a sergeant and anti-tank gunner in the Royal Artillery and Norfolk Yeomanry in the desert in Egypt (after being evacuated from Dunkirk). He was later captured by the Germans, handed over to the Italians, and ended up in a POW camp, first in Italy and later at Stalag 4b in eastern Germany until the end of the war.
     
  7. Philip Gordon

    Philip Gordon New Member

    My uncle, Alfred George Symonds was in the Tank Transporter Company (143 Co. RASC) and I have inherited a book entitled "The Long Trailers" which is an account of the work of that company during WW2. It contains a description of their time at El Tahag from June 1941 until they transported some Indian troops to Iraq. They then returned to El Tahag. I have uploaded the relevant 2 pages here.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

    The website of New Zealand’s 28th Māori Battalion has an extract from the War Diary for August 1941:

    19 Aug: 0900 hrs Battalion embussed and moved to new location called Tahag. Battalion occupied Camp 35, Tahag map ref. 012739 sheet S4/60 Zagazig.​

    Here is an extract from Egypt 1:100,000 GSGS 4085 Sheet 84/66 Zagazig (1941) (University of Texas) showing the grid reference. Seems to be in the middle of nowhere and reading recollections of the place, not a pleasant location to be in.

    Tahag.JPG
     
  9. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    The move of the 5th Indian Division began 23 August 1941.

    See here:

    But on August 22 the digging of fortifications was interrupted quite suddenly. The Division was to move next morning. Rumour spread, as it always spreads, from mouth to mouth. Where? Why? The Division was hurried from the Desert to Iraq to reinforce the Eighth and Tenth Indian Divisions for operations against Persia, and to take its share in maintaining the internal security of Iraq, where the uprising of Rashid Ali and his followers was being quelled in Baghdad.

    So once more the Division set off on its travels, this time towards the East and into Asia. A glimpse of Cairo, a night spent beside the Suez Canal at Ismailia, a long drive across the grim and picture-book Sinai Desert to Gaza. Many of the vehicles were new. So were their drivers. The engines needed running in and were prone to frequent overheating. Each day the men woke at half past four and drank their mug of tea by the light of cookers. As they motored across Sinai the sun sometimes shone down through a reddish mist, which suddenly melted away till the road ahead showed clear. And the drivers could not brake their trucks too harshly for fear of piercing the tarmac surface of that road. Palestine was green, hilly and inhabited, which were virtues in the eyes of the Division, and a man must have been pagan indeed who had not heard or read of this Holy Land. Over Jordan and high on the plateau of Transjordan came disillusion, at Mafrak, dreary; desolate, dusty and lashed by swirling, blinding, coating sandstorms. Even the interest of a nearby Roman amphitheatre, villa, and pillared temples could not make weight against the fury of the storm, and two days of Mafrak sufficed. Only the uniforms of the Frontier Force of Transjordan gave colour to the scene of flat desert, black Bedouin tents, a ramshackle village and the local mud-coloured fort.

    Then the convoy struck eastwards across mile after mile of seemingly endless, featureless desert, a waste of brown and black boulders, of soft sand in which many a vehicle became bogged, even if it escaped the ravages of engine trouble. The rear trucks of each column were obliged to race and jolt along in order to keep up with those in the lead, and the workshops fitter who brought up the rear was a busy man during that prolonged and arduous crossing into Iraq beside the oil pipeline. Later the Division passed through towns once more, and drove along the black strip of road---Ramadi, Falluja, Habbaniya with its Royal Air Force station and the lake whose shores glitter with flakes of mica.

    It was here that the news was brought that the disturbances of the Rashid Ali revolt had already been quelled by the Household Cavalry and other troops who had hurried to Baghdad. General Mayne, having seen his troops start from Egypt, had flown over to Baghdad to get himself in the picture of recent events. He was met by General Quinan, commanding the Tenth Army, with the news that the war with Persia was over suddenly and unexpectedly, and that, although he would put in a plea to retain Mayne's Division, it would probably have to return to the Desert at once.

    But having travelled so far, the Division was sent further north to the oilfields of Kirkuk, in case of renewed trouble. No one was allowed to stop in Baghdad, for the Iraqis were still hostile. Our troops had been warned to sit smartly in the backs of their three-ton lorries, with their rifles across their knees, and not to react to acts of open hostility, such as the throwing of bricks or rotten eggs. But there were no acts of any consequence; only an occasional spit, and the throwing of a harmless grape or two by way of a gesture of defiance and disapproval.

    The heat of Kirkuk had the touch of hell in its power, and was reflected from the steel structures and the oil drums. It mingled with the all-pervading smell of oil and the melting, sticky roads made of crude oil. Three weeks the Division remained in this place, sweltering in the heat, training, marching as though dazed to the river, and there bathing with a sense of sudden ecstasy in deep pools of gin-clear water that was far cooler than the air above. And a few fished, shot sand-grouse, and enjoyed the club of the local oil people, with its bathing pool that was better far than lying in sweat on your bed and longing for the dusk of evening.

    But this vexatious episode ended just as suddenly as it had begun. And at the beginning of October, but a few days after the tail units reached Kirkuk, the Division was heading towards Egypt once again by the same route. It gained valuable experience of travel over immense and wearisome distances, and learned the mysteries of convoy discipline, 'vehicles to the mile,' and 'miles in the hour.' While Ten Brigade and Divisional Headquarters and troops drove to Mena outside Cairo in order to train in Desert warfare with tanks in support, Fletcher's Nine Brigade settled down at Kabrit on the shores of one of the Bitter Lakes, there to train for combined operations. Here for several weeks the men ran up hills, stumbled in the sand, climbed rope ladders, learned to row whalers and cutters, talked the jargon of bollards and bulkheads and other naval matters. For a short time the Divisional staff were engaged in planning a landing in Sicily, to take place in conjunction with the success of Operation 'Crusader' in the Desert, but this project was abandoned at an early stage. It was nearly two years before its time.


    Archived Source:
    Anthony Brett-James. Ball of Fire. Fifth Indian Division in the Second World War. 1951. Chapters 9-11.
     
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  10. sjw8

    sjw8 Well-Known Member

    The following is transcribed from the War Diary of 274 Field Coy R.E. -
    8/8/42 to 12/8/42 – At Sea / Port Teufik
    Voyage continued – weather now very hot.
    12.30 - Arrived PORT TEUFIK.
    15.00 - Disembarked 1500 hrs. Entrained at quay 07.30 hrs and proceeded to QUASSASIN Camp no. 35, arriving 23.00 hrs.

    13/8/42 – Quassasin
    In camp, vehicles arrived approx. midnight 13/14.

    14/8/42
    11.00 - Ordered to move to TAHAG camp 48. Arrived there at 12.30 hrs. Concentration of Divisional R.E. companies.

    22/8/42 – Tahag
    06.00 - Left TAHAG 48 proceeded by convoy to KHATATBA via CAIRO arriving 16.00 hrs.

    From the above extract, both (El) Quassasin and Tahag camps must have been very widespread, containing quite a few sub camp areas within each camp area.

    Steve W
     
  11. Gazz

    Gazz Active Member

    This thread is fantastic it has just cleared up an issue with me, I have a photograph of my Dad and his comrades in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment with a note on the which read as El Temag March 1941, no wonder I could not find any info as it is most likely El Tahag.
    Thanks
    Gary
     
  12. melvyn sexton

    melvyn sexton New Member

    I have read the messages reference the WW2 base camp El Tahag with interest. My father was based there between 5 Jan 1941 and January 1942 in the Medical Corps (RAMC) 6th General Hospital. The field hospital then transferred to a place called Buseilli Quassassin. My father was captured by the Germans on the 19 June 1942 and spent the rest of the war as a German PoW. Does any body have any information around this period that would give me an understanding of the size of the camp, conditions, etc and particularly how army personnel in the area ended up in enemy hands when the camp continued in operation for the duration of the war ?
    Thank
    Melvyn
     
  13. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Melvyn,

    Welcome aboard and I will send you some tips on research in a moment.

    It would be best to have a new thread for your question regarding your father, so I will ask a moderator later to help. Can you please add your father's full name and service number (if available) so that can be used as the title?

    As you may have seen Buseilli Quassassi appears on Google three times, twice to threads here. If you just use Quassassi Google returns a lot. So taking two, the first does not allow cut & paste, but is by a RAMC member:
    From: Suez

    Second is just after your father's capture:
    From: THE 7TH BLACK WATCH IN EGYPT 11TH AUGUST - 9TH SEPTEMBER 1942

    Searching here on Quassassin only found fifty-one threads refer to it. Using only Buseilli there are far fewer, six.

    The location of the camp strongly suggest your father was deployed miles away to the west in the desert. His Service Record should give you the information you seek and then the experts here can help.
     
  14. melvyn sexton

    melvyn sexton New Member

    Hi David
    Thank you for your prompt reply and for your suggestion of assistance through a moderator, I assume that the contact will be through email.
    My fathers full name was William Alfred Thomas Sexton although when this did not prove successful in searches W Sexton worked better.
    His service number was 7266331 and whilst in Egypt his rank was Nursing Orderly C11. His PoW number was 62365 and there is a family memory (which might be incorrect) that he got caught up in the overrun of the initial 8th Army by Rommell but I don't know enough about the geography of the area and the history of the war at that time to know if this could be possible,
    Thank you again for your help and while I wait further replies I will follow your links.

    Best Regards

    Melvyn
     
  15. Stephen Paternoster

    Stephen Paternoster Active Member

    My great grandfather Fred Paternoster was at Tahag Camp in 1941 and 1942 he was in Kings Dragoon Guards.
     
  16. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello Melvyn,
    I've only just picked up your post.

    I have found your father in a POW camp in Italy, Campo PG 70 at Monturano in the Marche region, as shown by his entry in the POW Register WO 392/21, issued by the International Red Cross in August 1943. He would have been transferred to Germany after the Italian Armistice of 8 September 1943.

    Best wishes,
     

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  17. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    EgyptBase.jpg Here is El Tahag Camp on a map of Egypt Base.
     
  18. Stephen Paternoster

    Stephen Paternoster Active Member

    They went out to Beda Fomm from there in February 1941 the KDG did.
     
  19. theBAKERy

    theBAKERy Bake the Army Brat

    Hi Folks, I'm a newby oldie who just stumbled across this site and the El Tahag thread, which I just happen to be revisiting in my grandfather's service records and timeline. So, for a bit of context and hopefully some relevant contribution to the El Tahag thread:

    My grandfather was Capt. (Hon. Maj.) Leslie Arthur Baker [1901-1975]. Initially a Shoeing Smith/Private (533210) 7th Own Hussars 1919 to Farrier/Staff Sgt 3rd Carabiniers and various cavalry training regiments 1940, at Home, India (Mhow & NWFP) and finally 7 years at the Remount Depot, Abbassia, Egypt at the beginning of WW2. He was Commissioned Lt. (161323) in the Pioneer Corps and posted straight back to Egypt with the MEF in 1941 (might have had something to do with him being pretty fluent in Arabic and managing local labour in both India and Egypt). He was promoted to T/Captain as soon a he stepped off the ship and made 2IC of 1/ERWB (Eritrean Refugee Work Battalion) who provided labour to the MEF Sub-Areas from Suez, Geneifa & El Fyed on Bitter Lake out to Quassasin and Tel El Kebir. The battalion was disbanded in June 1943 after the Axis surrender and he was promoted to Captain and T/Major on the same day and off to Tripoli, Libya to clean up the mess I guess. He was eventually appointed DADPL (Deputy Assistant Director Pioneer & Labour) of MEF 16 Area, Alexandria and then 18 Area Suez 1944 before returning the England in June 1945 and released as Honorary Major in October 1945.

    Context done, here are a couple of maps I've been working on to plot his movements around the various sub-area camps. These cover the Quassasin and Tel el Kebir areas. Some of the POI's (points of interest) are not super accurate, but where possible have been transcribed from Luftwaffe Target Dossier Flight Plans covering North Africa and associated aerial photos where available. The first is the stitched together high-level target flight plan of Tel El Kebir and El Qassasin with some markup I've added, particularly the outline of El Tahag Camp. The second is my attempt to locate some of the detail as a Google Maps overlay. Very much a work in progress this one and sorry they are both just screenshots at this stage. I'm also still working through these and the other locations (El Fayed, Geneifa, etc).

    EL TAHAG CAMP - Tel el Kebir to El Qassasin -  Luftwaffe Target Dossiers - mark-up.jpg EL TAHAG CAMP over Google Maps.jpg
     
  20. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Given the date of 20/06/1942 on casualty lists suggests he may have been caught up in the fall of Tobruk. His POW No. is given as 32365 camp 344. Previously held in Campo 70 Italy.
     

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