Family connections with South Lancashire Regiment

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Drew5233, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I've got two pictures of my girlfriends grandfather (Yes ! She's getting the bug) on her mothers side.

    All she knows so far is his name and DoB which is 13/03/1919 born in Salford.

    Can you shed any light on the pictures? I don't recognise the cap badge or the trade badges on the arms with a star above? There's also some shoulder flashes and lanyards just visible too.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    James with his wife and my girlfriends mother.

    Cheers for any info
    Andy on behalf of Andrea :)
     
  2. GPRegt

    GPRegt Senior Member

    Drew

    The 'star' is a crown and the badge below it is a steering wheel. Together they denote a top class driver, maybe even driving instructor. Can't find anything on the cap badge.

    Steve W.
     
  3. Donnie

    Donnie Remembering HHWH

    At a push i would say Hampshire Regiment but it looks too large.....thats al i can think of atm though

    Donnie
     
  4. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  5. Donnie

    Donnie Remembering HHWH

    Yup,

    That looks better Owen, your missus is from up North anyway isnt she Andy? Which would make it a safer bet than Hampshire Regiment!

    Donnie
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers all,

    She quite giddy now at the fact he may have been on Sword Beach on D-Day so she's hoping he was in the 1st Battalion.

    She's sending off for his service records to find out more.

    Thanks again,
    Andy
     
  7. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Yep, South Lancs.

    What year was your mother in law born?

    Just thinking about dating the photo with her as a baby.

    I wonder if it was a M/T type drivers course.

    There were a lot of Salford lads drafted into the South Lancs, he looks young and fit so 1st or 2nd Battalion? Any idea whereabouts in Salford he lived?

    Myself and Englandphil are building a database of South Lancs soldiers in WW2, and phil is transcribing an old history of the regiment onto Word as we speak, so once you have the details back let us know and we will tell you what we can.

    Museum Home Page

    Regards

    Pete
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hi Peter,

    Andreas Mum was born in Oct 1941 and she thinks they either lived in Walkden or Salford at the time.

    James was 22 yrs old at the time the picture was taken looking at his DoB.

    Andrea also remembers he was wounded by shrapnel in the leg and thinks he was discharged as a result of this wound.

    Regards
    Andy

    Hi Peter,

    I had a look at your site last night but just noticed this:

    Reductions. In the immediate aftermath of the war Regular Lancashire battalions served in India, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Eritrea, Malta, Italy, Trieste, Austria and Germany, and the 40th and 47th saw active service in Palestine, but peace brought reductions and by 1949 our three County Regiments had been reduced to one Regular battalion each.



    Andrea has just said her grandfather used to say 'Shalom' a lot which makes me think he may have gone to Palestine after the war?

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  9. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    I think the first battalion and the sixth battalions went to Egypt, so its a distinct possibility.

    The sixth battalion went in the guise of 61st Searchlight Regiment, Royal Artillery.

    The second battalion went from Burma to India to UK, so maybe not them. Seventh battalion were in India, not sure where they went but dont think Egypt.

    Do bear in mind though that prestwich has the largest jewish community in the country, so it may be something from home!

    He never mentioned parachute training?

    Regards

    Pete
     
  10. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Drew, just re-read the entry you pasted - the regiment talk about their battalions using their pre-1881 titles, so the 1st Battalion are referred to as the 40th , the 2nd battalion as the 82nd, so your clip does confirm the 1st Battalion were indeed in Palestine.

    I'm guessing the 47th referred to was the 1st Battalion East Lancs.
     
  11. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Drew, here's a bit more on your Man
    Name: James Brennand
    Birth Date: 13 Mar 1919
    Death Registration Month/Year: Mar 1992
    Age at death (estimated): 73
    Registration district: Salford
    Inferred County: Lancashire

    P
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers Phil....Thats the man.

    I spoke to his daughter tonight (She signed the SAR for me) and she recalls him being in France during WW2 so did any other South Lancashire battalions serve in France apart from the 1st?

    Also is there a thread on here ref how to apply for a NOK medals. He never wanted his medals and his daughter would like them.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  13. dave 1SLANR

    dave 1SLANR Willys Jeep

    Only the 1st bn served in France in WWII, 2nd Bn were in Madagascar in May 42 then out to Durban in October 1942 , then January 1944 onto the Arakan Front to face the Japanese .The 7th Bn left Liverpool on the 31st August 1944 destination Bombay, where they received orders that they were earmarked for internal security duties at Jubbulpore and Nagpur. The 7th was chosen to form part of an improvised British Training Brigade ALFSEA (Air Land Forces South-East Asia). At 7th's new station in Budni it became a training battalion in the 52nd Infantry Brigade , then onto Nazarganji at the end of May 1944 , then moving to Lohardagha at the end of April 1945 , then in February 1946 the 7th was disbanded .In 1945 a contingent of the 1st Bn sailed to Tripoli to bring back certain Nazis for trial at Nuremburg , I know this as my dad was one of those given the task , then they went out to Egypt , then my dad was back in Trieste 1948 where he met my mother .The 2nd Bn were out in Trieste in 1948 then in 1951 my dad was out in the Canal Zone till 1953 .I hope this info is of some use to you .
    Sorry I should have said only the 1st bn landed on D Day and of course the 2/4th a foot 13th Para bn dropped in the Ranville area .
     
  14. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Cheers Phil....Thats the man.

    I spoke to his daughter tonight (She signed the SAR for me) and she recalls him being in France during WW2 so did any other South Lancashire battalions serve in France apart from the 1st?

    Also is there a thread on here ref how to apply for a NOK medals. He never wanted his medals and his daughter would like them.

    Regards
    Andy

    Drew, the make up of the regiment during WW2 was as follows

    1st Bn
    1st/4th Bn Territorial
    2nd Bn
    2nd/4th Bn converted to Parachute Bn in 43
    5th Bn converted to Searchlight Regiment RA
    6th Bn Home Defence
    7th Bn
    9th Bn
    30th Bn

    Possible that he could have been in one of the other Bn's but mostly likely No 1
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Cheers all I'll get Andrea to send the form off this week for his records.

    Regards
    Andy
     
  16. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Phil,

    Had some interesting info on the 2/4th Bn.

    Pre-war they were terriers. On call up, they and 4 other terrier bns were formed in Independent companies (SL became No.4) and sent out to Norway.

    On return, they became part of a Special Service Brigade, which became part of No. 2 Commando. This explains the high number of SL casualties in No. 4 Troop, 2 Commando, this was the South Lancs/Kings/Liv scottish Commando troop.

    The 2/4 Bn. was reformed with draftees & regulars. Although they became the first company of the new 13th Bn. para's - they had previously tried to become the first troop of the newly formed 2nd Bn Para Regiment !! This was based at Preston, but it was oversubscribed.

    have posted off my form for an accompanied research visit to the QLR museum for June.

    Am particularily interested in 9th (HD) Bn. , and what the 2nd Bn were doing in gliders on 5th May !!

    Dave - nice to see another SL family member here.

    Regards

    Pete
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Me and Andrea went to visit her Grandmother today in hospital in Manchester this afternoon.

    I got talking to her today about the war (as you do) and she was telling me that she worked in a Liverpool factory making parts for Bren Guns and at the start of the war the same factory made field telephone components but at some stage they switched to making the gun parts. She told me that she wanted to join the Wrens at first but her father soon put a stop to that saying their was enough members of the family in the Navy already. One of the family he was talking about had served in both wars in the Royal Navy and later the Merchant Navy for a total of 46 years.

    She also told me about her brother Andrew O'Neil who in 1938 joined the Prince of Wales Volunteers signing up in Warrington and described his badge as having the Prince of Wales feathers in it.

    She told me the regiment later became the South Lancashire Regiment (I noticed the badge has POWV in it). After D-Day the family used to go to the cinema to watch the news reels to try and find out what Andrew was doing. Not long after D-Day started she said the family were in the cinema and they all shouted out in the cinema when they saw Andrew O'Neil walking ashore from a landing craft on D-Day.

    She went on to explain that Andrew had a best mate called Peter Carroll who was killed on D-Day when Andrew O'Neil was shot in the sholder.

    CWGC :: Certificate :poppy: I'm sure this is the Peter Carroll but he is listed as being killed in Belgium in 1940.

    She went onto tell me about another chap that came home with Andrew when they had w/end leave before D-Day called George William Daley. She took a liking to this chap and they started courting which went on through the war and they got married in 1952.

    They had a son who is Andrea's father and James Brennand in the first picture is holding Andrea's mother.

    From what we have just dicovered neither families knew they were fighting in the same regiment during WW2 until now.

    'Small World' springs to mind.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  18. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    South Lancs and East Yorks with the Suffolk's made up the Eighth Brigade that landed first on Sword on D day. (Queen red beach sector, for the red rose of Lancs)(Queen white beach sector for the white rose of York) they took a severe hammering at the Chateau de la londe. (The bloodiest square mile in Normandy)
    Eighth brigade always led off the assault. Great lads...Proud to have seen action with them.....
    Sapper
     
  19. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Has his service record arrived yet?

    I had a letter back from the QLR museum saying they aren't doing accompanied research visits anymore, all have to be done by post now which is a shame.

    Pete.
     
  20. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I had the wrong forms signed James Brennand. I'm going back to Manchester on the 4th July with the correct ones for the NoK to sign.

    We are going to apply for the other ones too that I mentioned in the above post so there'll be 3 in total, 2 grandfathers and a great uncle. Andrew O'Neil was in B Company according to Andrea's grandmother.

    2 Q's you may be able to answer?

    1. Whats the connection with Prince of Wales Volunteers? Were they a different Regt. just before the war?

    2. I've had a look in Blitzkreig in the West and there's no mention of the South Lancashire Regt. Any links to what they were upto in 1940?

    Regards
    Andy
     

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