O.K....So here I am posting a stupid topic for the purists . But it's one everyone can get involved in . Post your ( maximum of 3 ) favorite aces and why ...There your reasons so it dosen't have to be for any particular reason ...and noones wrong as I would rather post my top 50 , but that would get out of hand .. Rules of Engagement : 1) maximum of 3 . 2) no 2000 word reply's -keep it to the point and others will enjoy reading it . Anyways ...here's my three . 1) Heinz" Pritzl " Bar - the perfect allrounder. Victory's everywhere and jet ace to boot . 2) Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein - Probably not the greatest person ever . Great night fighter ! . The story of him making one of his aircrew stand to attention in their cockpit area while he gave them a dressing down always tickles me !. 3) Herbert Rollwage- shot down in the region of 44, four engined daylight bombers ! . He must not have had one nerve left in his body by wars end !. To keep comming back for more of that must have taken huge courage !. O.K..Thats three ..all German , but i have plenty of Allied favorites ..and a bunch more German ones also . Whats yours ?. Phil.
1) Douglas Bader For shere guts and determination in the face of an almost insurmountable disability ( to many) true leadership by example.Ok stories at the time and since may well mean that he was of a "flawed " character,but he got things done and done how he wanted it. Took over a totally demoralized 242 squadron and turned them into a real fighting force.Between 30.08.1940 (their first sortie in the Battle of Britain) and 09.08.1941 when he was shot down by Adolf Galland he scored 23 victories. 2) Heinz Knocke Have red his diary/book "I Flew for the Furher" at least a dozen times.Kept going even when the odds were stacked very highly against him and his colleagues.Even when all was lost he still went out to face an almost certain death as the book says "crippled in an almost suicidal last stand". By the end of the war he had flown 2000 flights,400 of which were combat missions and had logged 52 victories,19 of which were heavy bombers.He was a fantastic pilot and as i have read somewhere Allied pilots would have had a hard time against men like this.His efforts alone though,were not enough. There are many more i could name,but of the ones from both sides i have read about,these two really stand out in my mind. Stephen
Bader:I have to agree with Bader an inspiration for a whole generation of Lads,Eagle Readers like my self! Fl.Lt;'Screwball' Beurling;The Hero of Malta,An amazing Oddball Pilot~ I couldnt put his story down. My Local Hero! Bernard Henson,Never quite made the "Ace" status,though credited variously with 2{or 4,depending on where you read} Kills~Just because he is "Mine";Locals tell of his "Beating Up" the River Nene in his Hurricane in the summer of 1940 & apparently cooked a mean Egg & Chips in his pre~war Riverside Cafe!
1) Hartmann. Who cannot have on their list of favourites, somewhere, the all-time, never-to-be-beaten "Ace of Aces." 352 kills. Even if many of these were against sitting ducks who never stood a chance, the figures speak for themselves. The aim is to shoot down as many of the enemy as you can, and he certainly did that - if you want chivalry or a level playing field, go for a German ace who never faced the Russians and didn't have the massive numbers of sitting targets. = 2) Galland and Bader, for their leadership. Galland definitely scored more kills, but Bader has by way of compensation his incredible drive to keep going - how many of us today, after being mutilated in an air crash, would eschew all thought of 'compensation and sympathy' in favour of FIGHTING for the chance to get into an aeroplane and do it all again? Nobody else could have done what Bader did in turning 242 squadron around. His demonstration of his legless flying prowess in front of his demoralised squadron ("Have you heard about our new CO? Gossip is that he hasn't got any legs!") will go down in RAF history. That one act did more to earn their respect than anything else could have done.
MY Top three? Well, seeing as my interest is Pacific Theater ... Let me see ... #2 would be John Thach #3 would be James Flatley Jimmy Thach gets an early nod for coming up with the beam defense in the summer of 1941 and Jimmy Flatley (who coined the term "Thach Weave" in describing said tactic) for demonstrating the tactic’s efficacy in the operations of his VF-10 and for insuring its inclusion in the late 1943 re-write of the fighter operations section of the Navy’s fleet manual (USF-74) which he, one other pilot, and a yeoman produced (lucky me, I have the rough drafts). These gents were not only accomplished fighter pilots, but big picture practitioners and thinkers who were able to demonstrate and communicate what needed to be done and how to do it. Together they changed the whole way of doing fighter business away from the turn and burn to coordinated team tactics still in use today. It was also their collaboration that led to the USN’s formalization of strike control procedures. The two of them, together, towards the end of the war in the Pacific, Flatley as Mitscher’s operations officer in Task Force 58 and Thach in the same position for McCain in Task Force 38 came up with the “Big Blue Blanket” strategy for day and night coverage of Japanese airfields to counter the kamikaze threat as well as innovative fleet screening, bogey detection and delousing, and CAP interception methodologies and strategies. Carrier based aviation, again, lends itself to brief, sharp actions separated by months of non-combat routine. Even the highest scoring US carrier pilots’ scores were lower than the highest scoring Luftwaffe pilots by an order of magnitude or more. The majority of the difference, I believe, can be readily attributed to the relative number of opportunities for aerial combat, primarily from exposure. Thach, as CO of VF-3, achieved his scores in two days of combat, one near the Coral Sea in March 1942 and the second at the Battle of Midway on June 4, 1942. All of his victories were scored while flying the F4F; three of them (on 4 June) were against the vaunted A6M2. A total of 3 combat sorties resulting in 7 victories. Flatley’s scores, also in F4Fs, were at the Battle of the Coral Sea on May 7 & 8, 1942, as XO of VF-42, and in the actions around Guadalcanal in October 25, and November 14, 1942, while CO of VF-10. Something like 5 combat sorties for 6.5 victories. He was also CAG 5 from February through September of 1943 where he pioneered the strike control practices later included in the USF-74 document. and #1 has to be William Leonard, but that's just because he's my father Thach's XO in VF-3 at Midway; the 'other pilot' re-writing the USF-74 manual with Flatley; and Thach's Assistant Ops Officer in TF-38. He ended up with total of six confirmed. Two F1M2 just before the Battle of the Coral Sea off Tulagi on 4 May 42, and one D3A1 at Coral Sea while in VF-42 flying F4F-3s, one B5N2 at Midway in VF-3, and two A6M2 in the Solomons on 12 June 43, with VF-11, those three in F4F-4s. Four air-combat sorties, 6 victories ... not bad. Regards, Rich
Gez guys where do I start. I have so many with everal still alive and good friends. Willi Unger of IV.Sturm/JG 3 fame. Flew the heavy Fw 190A-8/R8 during the war agasint the US heavy bomber formations and lived to tell about it; one harrowing escape over the Alps when he was shot down by a B-17 on 3 August 1944. Don Bryan of the US 352nd fighter group. One of the very few Allied pilots to bring down the fast Ar 234 jet-bomber. A skilled pilot and one great guy. Peter Spoden, ace in NJG 5 and last Gruppenkommandeur of I./NJG 6 at war's end. flew the Bf 110G-4 and finally the Ju 88G-6. The guy is amazing with exact details and although does not like to share about his war experiences has always answered my questions in lengthy detail. here is a war-time pic of Will Unger in a Sturmböck during the heavy September 44 battles..........
That's a tough one. Too many air aces in WW2. I guess: Al Deere Screwball Buerling John Thach The former was one of New Zealand's top Battle of Britain aces and died in 1995. The middle was a colorful pilot who died while going to fly for Israel. The latter revolutionized fighter tactics, doing so against a very tough enemy.
thought I would show a pic of friend and US P-51 ace Don Bryan signing artist/friends Troy White's "Perfida". The painting illustrates the kill Don received over a Ar 234 in spring of 45. A very intersting story I might add.
I take that back about the painting that is another one that I will try and show..... here's is a nice war-time pic of Don and his P-51
My three (all German) in no particular order. Gunther Rall Johannes Steinhoff Hans Joachim Marsaille My favourites for no better reason than their stories are all damn interesting
Col. Witold Urbanowicz He never participated in neither the Polish Campaign of 1939, nor in the Western European Campaign of 1940. When the war erupted he was an instructor at the polish Aviation Training Center (Centrum Szkolenia Lotniczego ). With a platoon of 50 junior officers-trainees under his command he made his way (on the ground) to Romania by 17 September 1939. Leaving his subordinates in that country, he went back to Poland to rejoin the struggle, was captured but managed to escape back to Romania on the very same day. In August of 1940 he was already 34 years old, nevertheless, he volunteered for active flying duty. In 1942 he was send to U.S. as an assistant to the Polish air attache. In September of 1943 he was send, on his own request, to fight against the Japanese in China ("Flying Tigers"). Of his confirmed victories 20 were achieved in air-to-air combat (17 of them were over German planes), and nine were enemy planes destroyed on the ground. He also downed a Soviet recon plane back in 1936.
Hi Laufer, Urbanowicz served during the Battle of Britain and had 15 Victories . I think you know this, it just wasn't clear from your post. Take care, Neil
Originally posted by laufer@Aug 26 2004, 09:50 AM Col. Witold Urbanowicz He never participated in neither the Polish Campaign of 1939, nor in the Western European Campaign of 1940. [post=27679]Quoted post[/post] What I meant was a campaign in France of course. But, you're right about my post
1. Brendan 'Paddy' Finucane. Worshiped by all who served under him. 2. James Edgar 'Johnnie' Johnson. Excelled in fighter combat. 3. Douglas Bader. Need I say more.
Nobody else could have done what Bader did in turning 242 squadron around. His demonstration of his legless flying prowess in front of his demoralised squadron ("Have you heard about our new CO? Gossip is that he hasn't got any legs!") will go down in RAF history. That one act did more to earn their respect than anything else could have done. Johnny Johnston in his book "wing leader" derided Bader in very strong terms . My ex's mother in law met Bader on several ocassion because of work and described him as being a "odius little man". That came from a woman who tried to find good in everyone. Also, rumour control in the RAF used to say that Guy Gibsons's engines had been tampered with because of the dislike people had of him and that Bader would have suffered the same fate. there was Hoppy hopegooed the FAA pilot who had tin legs, he shoot down more enemy aircraft than did Bader. :ph34r: :ph34r:
