Finding Lance Corporal R.J. Wall of 2 RUR - Identifying Medal Ribbons & Rank

Afternoon all

I am (hopefully) nearing the end of a 5 year quest to identify a Signalmen wounded in Holland when the FOP he was operating at received a direct hit from shelling.

The mystery started when the current owner of the property where the FOO was based discovered that the Signalman had left his Royal Ulster Rifles cap badge, a broken morphine ampule and his torn and bloodied trousers behind before being medevac'd and I am now interested in trying to identify a picture of the aforementioned Signalman who I now believe was Lance Corporal R.J. Wall of the 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles Signal Platoon.

So far I have managed to establish that L/C Wall:

• seems to have been one of the "Old Guard" based on Regimental History record remarks
• was with the Royal Ulster Rifles in Palestine sometime between 1938-39 (as there is a record of him receiving the Palestine clasp)
• he was listed as being part of the 2 RUR Signal Platoon during D-Day
• according to Casualty List records, he was recorded as being wounded on the 1st December 1944 as part of the same action during which the mystery Signalman was also injured (reportedly on the 29th November)

I also have a photo of the Signal Platoon that was most likely taken in the early part of 1944 and so I was hoping to be able to identify Lance Corporal Wall based on his rank and medal ribbons (I'm assuming he would have also most likely been at Dunkirk with 2 RUR on the basis he was with them before and after).

I appreciate that the image quality isn't great but can anyone confirm whether prior to June 1944:

• a medal ribbon would have been issued for Palestine?
• a medal ribbon would have been issued for BEF/Dunkirk?
  
• whether it is possible to identify any/all of the medal ribbons in the photo?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Quis Separabit


2 RUR Signal Platoon early 1944


Medal Ribbon but No Obvious L/C stripe


Medal Ribbon but No Obvious L/C stripe


Medal Ribbon AND L/C stripe



L/C stripe but NO Medal Ribbon


L/C stripe but NO Medal Ribbon

 

and just for good measure, photos of the trousers, morphine ampule and cap badge...

 

Good luck Quis.
I am sure there will be lots of members that could help you

Stefan.

 

Ribands for the 1939-1943 (later 39-45) Star & the Africa Star were issued from late 1943.

There was no specific British official star or medal for Dunkirk, but only one days service in the Battle of France 1940 was required to qualify for the 39-43 star, so this was in effect a star for Dunkirk etc.

Could the L/C on the extreme right (standIng) be a match for a GSM & 39-43 star ?

In 2005 the post WW1 attestation books no longer required by the MoD for the RUR were at the RUR museum in Belfast so hopefully they will be able to put forenames to this soldier.

I notice that on the Palestine medal roll dated 1940 for the R J Wall 2nd RUR it does not show any discharge date so as you say looks like he was a regular at the outbreak of war.

 

Many thanks for this and for highlighting that it looks like he wasn't discharged inbetween Palestine and the War, the remarks in the Regimental history suggest he was one of the "Old Guard" suggesting he was with them pre War.

I will contact the Museum to see if they can provide his full name and/or his attestation book.

Excuse my ignorance but am I potentially looking for a riband like this:


in which case, it's not impossible that it could be a match for the riband on this Lance Corporal as the length and relative shading appear similar.....



which looks similar to this one (albeit he doesn't appear to have a Lance Corpoal strip and his position in photo suggests he wasn't one).




Thanks again.

Quis Separabit

 

6010121 R.J. Wall originally enlisted in the Essex Regiment before transferring to the Royal Ulster Rifles (another option for name confirmation)

The Lance Corporal Unknown, is a motorcycle despatch rider, so probably not your man?


My grandfather in 1942, clearly showing the General Service Medal ribbon, India and Palestine

 

Hi Guy

Thanks for this, I'm assuming you established Essex Regiment from his Service Number sequence?

Re the motorcycle despatch rider comment, can I ask how you identified that (I've just noticed he has unusual boots..).

The photo is of the 2 Royal Ulster Rifles Signals Platoon circa March 1944 so the obvious question is whether a Signals Platoon would normally have despatch riders? Could they be signallers AND despatch riders/ have motorcycles or were they completely separate roles?

Re your Grandad's ribbon, can you confirm the order (or is it General Service Medal ribbon; India ; Palestine)?

Thanks again.

Quis Separabit

 

Hello Quis Separabit.

Have you read the account titled "Blitzwick" from "THE RIFLES ARE THERE" by David Orr and David Truesdale?

It covers the actions of the battalion at the end of November/beginning of December in the Blitterswijk/Meerlo(Mierlo)/Wanssum area.

No mention of Corporal Wall unfortunately, but you may recognise names/incidents that will confirm you thoughts, and could lead to other accounts containing the detail and confirmation that you seek - maybe.

If you've not read the account and would like to just say and I'll post it up.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

 

6010121 Wall's service number when he initially attested into the Essex Regiment.


1944 dated desptach rider's breeches and boots.
Rich Payne he will be able to explain the finer details of the despatch rider duties.


My grandfather served for seven years in India and then spent 90 days on Malta before being posted to Palestine.

The General Service ribbon denoted overseas service but had clasps to denote which theatre when worn with the medal.


Guy

 

Hi Jim

Thanks, yes I've already got a copy of The Rifle Are There and Regimental Journal for the peiod which the book is largely based on and which was transcribed to form the basis of my website at 2nd Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles in WW2: 29th to 30th November 1944 - Attack on Wanssum

It was from this and other bits and pieces of infrormation that I have acquired over the years, including the MC recommendation for Captain Taylor of 33 Field Regiment (see below), that I managed to piece together a theory that the injured Signaller and owner of the trousers might be a Signaller from 2 RUR who was with Captain Taylor in the FOP when it received a direct hit by shelling on the 29th November - just before the battle for Wanssum...

As it turns out, Lance Corporal R.J. Wall was a member of the 2 RUR Signals Platoon who appears to have been attached to D Company, it was D Company that led the attacks on Wanssum on the 30th November and 1st December, and Lance Corporal R.J. Wall was recorded in the Casualty List as having been wounded on the 1st December (I know for a fact that dates on Casualty List records aren't always correct) so.......

My working theory is that he was injured on the 29th, treated by Captain Taylor where he fell in the loft (where the items were found), was moved to safety in to the cellar where he remained whilst Captain Taylor resumed his FOO work until the Wanssum action was concluded (on the 1st December) at which point Lance Corporal R.J. Wall was medevac'd and recorded as a casualty.....but it is just a theory....

However, if it was possible to trace the family of Lance Corporal R.J. Wall and confirm that he had received a shrapnel wound to his lower right leg (see trousers photo above) then that would be more than enough to convince me it was him and solve the riddle...

I am heading over to Blitterswijck ("Blitzwick") next week for the 80th Commemoration of their liberation by 2 RUR and will be meeting the owner of the FOP who found the items 5 years ago as well as relatives of Captain Taylor so it would be perfect timing to finally clear up the Mystery of the Signaller....

Quis Separabit

 

Excellent, hope all goes well with the visit and commemoration/celebration, and confirming your thinking regarding Corporal wall.

Good luck and happy travels, always,

Jim.

 

"Trux" is the best source that I know for 21st Army Group establishments. It would seem that in addition to a motorcycle at section headquarters, there were three, one with each Line Section. I wouldn't have expected a Line Section motorcycle orderly to have been operating communications. This is a full copy paste from the Trux pages on the forum:-

Signals platoon
The signals platoon was responsible for communication from battalion headquarters to companies. Communications from brigade to infantry battalion was provided by Royal Signals. Communications within companies was provided by company personnel.

Headquarters
Motorcycle
signal serjeant
15cwt truck GS
Subaltern, batman driver,
Carries a PIAT

Wireless section
15cwt truck GS
corporal signaller, 3 X signaller, driver IC

15 X signallers do not have a permanent place on unit transport and normally march.

Line section
Motorcycle
signaller orderly
Motorcycle
signaller orderly
Motorcycle
signaller orderly
5cwt car 4 X 4 (jeep)
signaller orderly acting as driver IC
Tows 10cwt trailer

15cwt truck 4 X 4 personnel
2 X corporal signaller, 2 X signaller, storeman, driver IC

There were also three signaller orderlies on bicycles

Orderlies were messengers. They performed a similar task to despatch riders but only within the battalion. Despatch rider was a Royal Signals trade and thus paid more. The seven signaller orderlies used four motor cycles and three bicycles. Bicycles were for use in the headquarters area and were carried on a 15cwt for longer moves. Bicycle riders carried a rifle. Motor cycle orderlies carried Sten guns. The signals serjeant also had a bicycle and was armed with a Sten gun.

The 15cwt 4 X 4 Armoured was a White Scout car carrying wireless sets. It would normally be at Battalion Headquarters and be used by the Signal Officer and working as the battalion signals office. This vehicle was driven by a driver IC.

The signallers were not concentrated at headquarters but dispersed to companies as well. Each telephone link from battalion headquarters to the six company headquarters was manned at both ends by signallers from the signals platoon. Signallers at the company end of the line were semi permanently attached to the company. Linesmen from headquarters were responsible for mending breaks in the line. These were fairly frequent since they were not only exposed to damage from shell and mortar fire but unless the line was carefully placed tracked vehicles would carry them away.

 

Brilliant, thanks very much, this ties in with what I had assumed regarding a Signals Platoon member being used for a 2 x Company attack and reinforces that a Signaller working alongside the FOO would quite likely have been there to convey signals to D Company CO who was leading the attack.

I have a separate list of those attached to the 2 RUR Signals Section on a D-Day embarkation list and it mentions their roles and vehicles so I will try and do some cross matching.

I will assume that the Despatch Rider shown in the picture above is NOT the elusive Lance Corporal Wall...

Thanks again.

D-Day EmbarkationList - 2 RUR Signals Section
Service No. Rank Name Section Duties Craft Vehicle
7018556 L/C. Burke. W. Sigs. Signaller. B. COY.
7015527 Rfn. Brankin. J. Sigs. Signaller. D. COY.
7012186 Cpl. Clarke. G. Sigs. Sigs. Corp. 392
7011722 L/C. Campbell. J. Sigs. D.R.C.O. 376 M/C.
7021298 Rfn. Caldwell. T. Sigs. Signaller. 392
7015467 Rfn. Cairns. J. Sigs. B/S.O. 392
6410270 Rfn. Donohoe. F. Sigs. Sig. 392
7018568 Rfn. Dann. R. Sigs. Sig. B. COY.
7016659 Rfn. Edwards. A. Sigs. Sig. 367
7018535 L/C. Field. J. Sigs. Sig. B. COY.
7016365 Rfn. Ferry. A. Sigs. Sig. 392
7013028 Rfn. Ferris. G. Sigs. Sig. A. COY.
7015257 Rfn. Hillen. I. Sigs. Dvr. 3130 15 CWT SIGS.
7019771 Rfn. Jones. W. Sigs. Sig. 392
7015295 Rfn. Kanneen. H. Sigs. Dvr. D17 SIGS. 15 CWT.
4554941 Rfn. Knowles. R. Sigs. Sig. 392
7014544 Rfn. Long. J. Sigs. Sig. C. COY.
7017733 L/C. Liggett. G. Sigs. Sig. A. COY.
7013329 Rfn. Moore. T. Sigs. Sig. 367
7013075 Rfn. Millen. S. Sigs. Dvr. D.R. D17 M/C.
7017287 Rfn. Moroney. W. Sigs. D.R. D9 M/C
7019792 Cpl. Martin. E. Sigs. Sig. Cpl. 392
7016381 Rfn. McClean. A. Sigs. D.R.C.O. 376 M/C.
229849 Lieut. McFaull. F. W. Sigs. S.O. 392
7014363 Rfn. Neill. A. Sigs. Sig. 392
7011957 Rfn. Park. C. Sigs. Sig 392
7013830 Rfn. Robb. W. Sigs. Sig. S. COY.
7010631 Rfn. Renton. W. Sigs. Storeman. 3130
7022484 Rfn. Robinson. F. Sigs. Sig. D17
7013182 Cpl. Spence. T. Sigs. Sig. Cpl. 367
7016262 Rfn. Stead. G. Sigs. Dvr. D4 15 CWT. SIGS.
7012152 Sjt Taylor. D. Sigs. Sigs. Sjt. 367
7017255 Rfn. Thomson. E. Sigs. D.R. D17 M/C.
7012978 Rfn. Tomelty. A. Sigs. Sig. 392
7017901 Rfn. Webb. F. Sigs. Sig. 392
6010121 L/C. Wall. R. Sigs. Sig. D. COY.

 

I'm not sure where the attestation books of the Essex Regiment are but you could ask at their museum
History of the Essex Regiment from 1902
or here
Military in Essex Home Page

Its possible that he will only feature in the RUR books as a "transfer in" a seperate set of books to the attestation registers.

 

6010121 enlisted into the 6th Bn Essex Regt (TA) in early September 1932. He was a serving territorial when he enlisted into the regular army and thus retained his number on enlistment. His GSM 1918-62 clasp Palestine for service with 2RUR was awarded under Army Order 247 of 1939. He was wounded serving with 2 RUR in December 1944 so his medal entitlement will be 1939/45 star, France and Germany Star, Defence and War medals.

 

7011722 Lance Corporal J.A. Campbell. Sigs. D.R.C.O. 376 M/C.

The only Despatch rider Lance Corporal who served in Palestine (G.S.M. rolls)

 

Hi Gelert

Brilliant, thanks very much for this, it confirms what I had gleaned that he was one of the "Old Guard", is this information that is available online and/or is there any indication of his full name and/or where he may have lived?

Checking online I can see that the 6th Battalion Essex Regt (TA) was based at the Cedars, West Ham so would it be reasonable to assume he would have come from that area?

I've contacted the Essex Museum to see if they have any records but it would be useful to try and establish his full name and location in order to try and track down any potential relatives...

Many thanks.

Quis Separabit

 

Yet more amazing detective work, and more importantly a potential name to a face, are the G.S.M. rolls available online and is it possible to search by date and/or 1939-39 Palestine clasp?

Many thanks.

 

I have access via Ancestry, did you want me to check the nominal roll of the Signals Section?
Guy

 

Hello Quis'.

In lieu of Guy getting back to you, GSM Rolls for the period you are interested in, yes, on Ancestry.

A search with a known service number will work, failing that a broad name search too (but results in more "possibles" to trawl through).

Example images, with names and service numbers you'll recognise, below.

Kind regards, good luck to you, always,

Jim.





EDIT: And like all you younger fellas, Guy types quicker than me!