This is a new adventure for me. I'm more accustomed to quilt forums, but here goes. My father was a crew member on a B-17, the Flatbush Floogie, stationed in Deopham, England. I found a post listing crew members of the FF when it went down, but none of the names look familiar to me. Dad died in 1993, and all his memories went with him. I didn't pay attention soon enough, so just have vague memories. I know he was awarded the DFC with Oak Leaf Clusters. I know he was in the US in 1944, and stationed in Tampa, FL. But the rest is unknown. His name was Fred Ramsey. I remember the names of 2 of his crewmates for sure and am pretty sure of a third. If anyone has any suggestions on how to get more information, or has more information, I would be most grateful. I am working on a genealogy for the family, and would love to have Dad's military record in there. Thank you. karen
Hi Karen, A quick Google reveals 2 apparently different mentions of a 'Flatbush Floogie'. One from our friendly Forum over the water 'WW2f': Very Rare photo of 42-97083 Flatbush Floogie - World War II Forums And one a Google books result including both: Missing Planes of the 452nd Bomb Group - Google Books - 42-32083 Missing Planes of the 452nd Bomb Group - Google Books - 42-97083 both shot down, but different crew lists and apparently different planes. 42-97083, & 42-32083. I suppose there could be several others - do any of those names ring a bell? Cheers, Adam.
Two 17s were named Flatbush Floogie in the 452nd BG 42-97083 shot down near Berlin on April 11,1944, Pilots name Gardner (all crew PoW) 42-32083 shot down in Poland on February 26, 1945. Pilots name Markison (all crew PoW) Neither unfortunately went down with a crew member named Ramsey (I will post full crew lists soon, I don't have time to type them out just now) Of course, air crew didn't actually often fly the same plane for the duration of their service. Sometimes up to 5 or 6 (or more). He may have flown a plane of that name several times but not when they went down. The fact he was back in the US seems to support this as he probably completed his tour and returned to the US, or was wounded and discharged perhaps. Can you fill us in with a few extra details? Year and place of birth, any middle names he may have had....may be able to find an enlistment record which should give a few clues, such as his service number.
Karen Welcome aboard and, to coin a phrase, you have certainly hit the decks running As you can see, there are lots of knowledgeable folk on this site and if anyone can help you, then this is the site. Good luck ! Ron
Welcome to the forum Karen, Hope someone can assist you in your research. What a state for a quilter - Connect - I - Cut. (Sorry, a little Aussie humour):wink:
Dad didn't go down in a plane at all, so the crew lists aren't of his crew. The names I remember are Bill Clough of Meadville, PA, Bobby Raugh of Pottstown, PA, and possibly Ray Kurtz. Bill and Bobby were the witnesses at my parents' wedding in 1944 in Atlantic City. According to family story, there was only one change in the crew while they were in England and that was a crew member who had a breakdown on their first flight. Other than that, they all rotated home together. Dad was Frederick James Ramsey, Jr., usually used Fred. Born in New Haven, CT, on 23 May 1920 -- though he lied about his age to get his license and may have also lied to the Army, saying he was born in 1919. He enlisted in early Dec 1941, and reported for training 16 Feb 1942. He was initially in the infantry, and later transferred to the Air Corps. (He wanted to be cavalry initially, horses being his first love.) I can get his social security number if that would help. I'm going to head down to Greenwich and see if I can get a copy of his discharge papers from town hall. He would have used them to get a tax break, and I'm hoping they still have a copy. If not, would it be worth pursuing to get a copy from the gov't? Thanks for the welcomes!! I'm pretty good at research, and this is a fabulous subject and group.
Found his enlistment record Clicky I'll come back to this with some more, just got back from a weekend away, so have lots of things to sort through.
Hi Karen, I am the Secretary/Editor for the 452nd Bomb Group Association and can get you mission lists, loading lists, etc. Toll free # 1-800-452-9099 or let me know through the site. I do much research. There were two Flatbush Floogies 1. had nose art and piloted by Kurtz, then Gardner/crashed Schilling, Germany. 2. Piloted by Marksian crashed Poland. Cally This is a new adventure for me. I'm more accustomed to quilt forums, but here goes. My father was a crew member on a B-17, the Flatbush Floogie, stationed in Deopham, England. I found a post listing crew members of the FF when it went down, but none of the names look familiar to me. Dad died in 1993, and all his memories went with him. I didn't pay attention soon enough, so just have vague memories. I know he was awarded the DFC with Oak Leaf Clusters. I know he was in the US in 1944, and stationed in Tampa, FL. But the rest is unknown. His name was Fred Ramsey. I remember the names of 2 of his crewmates for sure and am pretty sure of a third. If anyone has any suggestions on how to get more information, or has more information, I would be most grateful. I am working on a genealogy for the family, and would love to have Dad's military record in there. Thank you. karen
Hello Karen ,the member hasnt been on forum since Dec 2014 I have sent them a private message with the thread link hopefully they might pick it up regards Clive
Thank you for your response. According to my father's sister, Dad's crew was unusual. They went to England together and all came home together. It was after they returned to the States that the Floogie was shot down. After the war ended, the pilot, Ray Kurtz, went on to fly planes to Israel as they were bought as surplus. He became one of the first members of the Israeli Air Force, and was shot down while serving. Dad became a cop, not much excitement in his life, which was how he wanted it.
I got your message. Now to find the sheets with the crew information on them. I put them in a safe place -- which means it might take a day or three to find them. Looking forward to hearing from you, Karen. Karen Waggoner
I have the crew as: Rucker (Navigator), Kurtz (Pilot), Capriotti (Radio Operator), Green (Ball Turrent), Ramsey (Amor-gunner), Sadowski (Tail Gunner), Burnham (Asst. Engineer), Brown (Co-Pilot), Robertson (Bombadier). Karen Robertson
Are you still interested? My dad left pictures, news clippings, and wrote of his war experiences. One news clipping speaks of your dad's marriage. Just trying to help you out as I would want someone to do for me.
