Focke-Wulf 190 (opinions & info please)

What impact did the FW190 have when it first appeared in 1941?

How outclassed was the Spitfire V?
What is you're opinion of the FW190?
What did the RAF do to counter the FW190?
Did it effect the RAF's aggressive stance?
Etc, etc.
Thanks.

 

It did outclass the Spitfire MKV, climbing faster at all altitudes and being faster on the deck, the British went on to develop the MKIX to counter it which evened things out as was superior in some respects.

I rate the FW-190 highly. I would say it was better than the BF-109 and in later incarnations (FW-190D-9/TA-152C/H) was one of the best prop fighters of the war alongside the Spitfire MKXIV in my opinion. It was (again only my opinion) the best prop engined fighter the Germans produced.

They developed the Spitfire more into the MKVI, VII, VIII, and MKIX (although the MKIX was the most common in the ETO).

As far as I know not really but I would have to read up on it. They developed tactics to counter the FW-190 so after the initial surprise, things continued as normal until the Spitfire MKIX came online in late 1941/early 1942 (I think).

Stats:

MK-V - Performance testing: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-V.html
MK-IX - Performance testing: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-IX.html
FW-190D-9 - Performance testing: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/fw190/fw190d9test.html

Spitfire: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/spitfire.html
FW-190: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/fw190.html
TA-152: http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ta152h.html

Spitfire MK-V: "Third major production version, combining Mk I/II airframe features with 1,185 hp Merlin 45 single-stage single-speed engine. Prototype installation in a Mk I first flown December 1940 and 154 Mk I and Mk II conversions made in 1941. First production Mk V (Supermarine Type 331) flown from CBAF in June 1941 and production totalled 4,489 at that factory, 1,363 by Supermarine and 635 by Westland. In addition, some 200 Mk I/II convened to Mk V standard. Service use began mid-May with No 92 Sqn. Production included 94 Supermarine Spitfire VA with eight-gun armament, 3,911 Supermarine Spitfire VB with two-cannon/four-mg armament, and 2,467 Supermarine Spitfire VC introducing new wing (Supermarine Type 349) in late 1941 that could carry four cannon without mgs, or two-cannon/four mg arrangement as Mk VB. Total production also included 15 photo-recce Supermarine Spitfire PR Mk V (see separate entry for photo-recce Supermarine Spitfires). For service in Middle and, later, Far East, tropical versions introduced large Vokes dust filter over carburettor air intake under nose, or small filter developed and fitted at Aboukir in Egypt. To extend range, Supermarine Spitfire Vs (and later marks) carried flush-fitting belly tanks of 30- or 45-Imp gal (136- or 205-1) capacity on regular operations, 90-Imp gal (409-1) for special ferry flights or 170-Imp gal (773-1) version used by 17 aircraft flown from Gibraltar to Malta in late 1942. From end-1942, 'fighter' role prefix resulted in Supermarine Spitfire F Mk VA, F Mk VB and F Mk VC designations, using Merlin 45, 46, 50, 50A, 55 or 56 medium-altitude engines. For lower altitude operations, Supermarine Spitfire LF Mk VB used Merlin 45M, 50M or 55M, with cropped supercharger impellers and combat boost rating of 1,585 hp. Many Supermarine Spitfire Vs had wing tips removed ('clipped'), reducing span to 32 ft 2 in (9.80 m). Starting 1942, Supermarine Spitfire Vs were adapted to carry one 250-lb (113-kg) bomb under each wing, or one 500-lb (227-kg) bomb under fuselage in place of long-range tank. Some aircraft were fitted with hooks to tow Hotspur gliders at training schools. One radio-controlled drone version was tested in 1944, and one captured Mk VB was fitted in Germany with 1,475 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A. In Egypt, two Supermarine Spitfire VCs fitted with extended wing-tips, boosted Merlin 46s and four-blade propellers operated up to 50,000 ft (15,240 m) to intercept Ju 86P-2s. Supermarine Spitfire Vs operated in Europe and Middle East by RAF, RCAF, RNZAF and RAAF squadrons from 1941 onwards; in India/Burma from late 1943, and in Australia, where 245 Supermarine Spitfire VCs and one VB were transferred from RAF to RAAF in 1942-43 (plus 11 lost en route). Starting late-1942, ten squadrons of the SAAF flew Supermarine Spitfire Vs (and/or Mk IXs) in North Africa, Sicily and Italy, including No 40 Sqn operating in the 'Tac R' role for which Supermarine Spitfires carried an oblique camera just behind the cockpit. From mid-1942, some 600 Supermarine Spitfires (mostly Mk Vs) supplied to USAAF units flying in the UK and North Africa on 'reverse lend-lease' basis, retaining RAF serials. Two (or more) Mk VAs to USA in 1941 for evaluation. Supply of Supermarine Spitfires to Soviet Union began early-1943 with transfer of 143 Mk VBs; in late-1943 the RAF released 33 Mk VBs to Portugal. One squadron of the R Egyptian AF was equipped with Supermarine Spitfire VCs. "

Supermarine Spitfire IX: Fourth major production fighter variant (Supermarine Type 361),
combining Mk VC airframe with two-stage two-speed Merlin 60 series engine but lacking other improvements designed for (later) Supermarine Spitfire VIII. Early Merlin 60 and 61 flight-tested in Supermarine Spitfire III (from August 19, 1941) and a Supermarine Spitfire IA, followed by conversion by Rolls-Royce of two Mk VCs to Mk IX prototypes with Merlin 61s early-1942. Further 282 conversions of Mk V airframes by Rolls-Royce; production totals 5,095 by CBAF and 561 by Supermarine. Service use began June 1942 in No 64 Sqn. Early standard aircraft had 'C' wing armament, standard wing span, Merlin 61 and provision for wing and fuselage bomb racks. Later, designations used to differentiate altitude rating of engine: Supermarine Spitfire LF Mk IX with Merlin 66, Supermarine Spitfire F Mk IX with Merlin 61 or 63 and Supermarine Spitfire HF Mk IX with Merlin 70. Broad-chord, pointed-tip rudder became standard later, as did compact Aero-Vee tropical filter. Late-production CBAF Mk IXs had cut-down rear fuselage with 360-deg vision canopy, and Supermarine Spitfire IXE designation (with LF, F or HF prefix) indicated new wing armament of two 20-mm cannon and two 0.50-in (12.7-mm) machine guns. More than 50 RAF and Commonwealth squadrons flew Supermarine Spitfire IXs, primarily in European theatre, and 1,188 Mk IXs were supplied to the Soviet Union in 1943-44; at least one Mk IX was modified in Russia to two-seat training configuration. A small number of Supermarine Spitfire IXs supplemented Mk Vs in USAAF service in Twelfth Air Force. Max speed, 408 mph (657 km/h) at 25,000ft (7,620 m). Time to 20,000ft (6,100 m), 5.7 min. Initial climb, 3,950 ft/min (20.1 mlsec). Service ceiling, 43,000 ft (13,106 m). Range, internal fuel, 434 mis (698 km). Empty weight, 5,634 Ib (2,556 kg). Gross weight, 9,500 Ib (4,309 kg). Span, 36 ft 10 in (11.23 m) or 32 ft 9 in (9.80 m). Length, 31 ft 1 in (9.47 m). Wing area, 242 sq ft (22.48m2)."
Both from:http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html%20pages/SUPERMARINE%20SPITFIRE%20(Merlin,%20Fighter).htm

 

As usual Gnomey, you are the man. Going to read and digest this lot.:sign_wow:
P.s. Miss the old sig.

 

No problem Gage, I'm sure I could find more, if I went and looked.

Needed a change as I have had that one for about 3-4 months... (if you want I will change it so you can have it).

 

Have to agree with Gnomey on some of the points he mentioned. Only big downer in my opinion was it's resistance to fire. Cracking BMW radial engine and performance - but it could take hammer say like the Mustang or Thunderbolt. Also if I remember rightly the tail assembly was prone to snapping off in violent manoeuvres - I know that was the case with the Tempest/Typhoon's. As far as design goes it is Tank's best. It could hold it's own with most planes but the armour plating around the engine / pilot slowed it down in later designs. Saying that there were a number of German aces who clocked up 2 -3 hundred plus with this plane. I wonder if the German's looked at it as we look at the Spitfire.

 

Read my last thread and it should say that the 190 couldn't take hammer like the Mustang or Thunderbolt. Saying that in looks it does compare in some respects with the Zero.

 

I will agree Lancesergeant that it could take a hammering like the P-47 could but I would say it could take more damage than a Mustang. I agree it was Tank's best (and one of my favourite) planes.

 

I read that when it first came out it lacked the firepower.
Used to read loads about Rodeos and circuses, etc but I need to re-learn again because it's been so long.

 

It did.

Fw 190A-1:
Four 7.92mm MG 17 machine guns.

Fw 190A-2:
Two 7.92mm MG 17 machine guns above engine.
Two 20mm MG/FF cannon mounted in wing root.
Optional:
Two 7.92mm MG 17 machine guns in outer wings.

Fw 190A-3:
Two 7.92mm MG 17 machine guns above engine.
Two 20mm Mg 151/20 cannon mounted in wing root.
Two 20mm MG/FF cannon in outer wings.

Fw 190A-4/R6:
Two 20mm Mg 151/20 cannon mounted in wing root.
Two 210-mm WGr.21 rocket tubes

Fw 190A-8/F-8:
Two 20mm Mg 151/20 wing mounted cannon.
Two 13mm Mg 131 fuselage mounted machine guns.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/fw190af.html

 

What did the RAF do to counter the FW190?


The FW190 was used on low-level fighter-bomber operations over the UK in the months following its introduction, at the time when the Spitfire V was inferior to it. Fortunately for the British, the Typhoon was entering service and was found to have a sufficient low-level performance to counter the FW. (But only at low level).
The Spitfire IX was the could just about hold its own with the FW at medium and high levels but not at low level. The Spitfire XIV was the first Spitfire to be superior at all heights to the 190.

Adrian

 

Used to read loads about Rodeos and circuses, etc but I need to re-learn again because it's been so long.

Can anybody tell me the difference between, Rodeos, Rubs and circuses?

 

Can anybody tell me the difference between, Rodeos, Rubs and circuses?

Basically different names for the same things, large formations of allied aircraft carrying out offensive sorties over occupied France.

 

It is either an FW-190A (not sure which version) or an FW-190F-8.

 

View attachment 2475
So can anyone make out which variant my Avatar is? Sorry about the picture quality, it's from a very strange but good Russian website..
http://klad.hobby.ru/milarch.htm ('Haxodku' for pictures of kit still on the surface 60 years after the fighting.)

I don't know, so pray tell, Von Meister, please. And what's the background to it?

 

View attachment 2475
So can anyone make out which variant my Avatar is? Sorry about the picture quality, it's from a very strange but good Russian website..
http://klad.hobby.ru/milarch.htm ('Haxodku' for pictures of kit still on the surface 60 years after the fighting.)

Ok Von Meister. I've looked and looked at the pictures on the site. I've checked my books from the size of the open hatch on the fuselage I think it's an FW190 A4, but the colour scheme is strange maybe the colour in the pictures is off.

 

I think it's an FW190 A4, but the colour scheme is strange maybe the colour in the pictures is off.

Probably right Gage doesn't look like a Dora. For the Germans it was too bad that they didn't focus wholly on creating the Fw190 as an air superiority fighter. Never understood the need for a fighter bomber when you're getting the crap bombed out of you day and night. Massive numbers of early versions then leading to the TA152 would have made things very different.

 

A bit of research done.

Ramrod - Attack by bombers (or fighter-bombers) escorted by fighters. The primary object of the operation was the destruction of the target.
Rodeo - Fighter sweep over enemy territory with no bombers.
Roadstead - Attack on enemy ships at sea by bombers (or fighter-bombers) escorted by fighters.
Rhubarb - Small scale attack by fighters using cloud cover and surprise, with the object of destroying enemy aircraft in the air and/or striking at ground targets.
Circus - Attack by a small force of bombers with powerful fighter escort, intended to lure enemy fighters into the air.

 

Re: FW190
The policy in my group (99th) was that no pilot wold finish a tour as a copilot.
About halfway through my tour I was checking out my copilot in the left seat. We had about about 25 planes over the target, In my sqdn my plane was on the extreme right side. I had nothing to do except to look out of the window. I saw a FW190 attacking my plane from 4 o'clock level. This incident probably lasted 5 or 6 seconds. I remembered that we had a flare gun in the ceiling of the plane, it was loaded, I tried to pull it down to shoot at him but in the heat of excitement I forgot that it was screwed in a half turn, I could see 20mm shells coming closer and closer. He didn't hit me but in breaking away he flew under my wing, he saw my hand raised to pull down the gun, he thought that I was waving at him,so he waved back, luckily he missed me. While being debreifed I told S2 about the incident, they sent the story to my hometown paper, Several weeks later my folks sent me a copy of the story. It said " Nazi pilot and Jewish pilot salute each other in the heat of combat", after that incident I realized why the military issued us brown underwear..

Jules Horowitz, B17 pilot, 99th B.G. 15th A.F. 50 missions, July '43 to Feb '44.