Fred Elliott L/BOR RA (L.A.A) Army No. 1769054 Cairo, Egypt – please help, rather clueless

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping to find some more information on the time my Great Grandfather served in the Royal Artillery(?). If you've not gathered already, I'm rather clueless on the subject and would appreciate even the smallest bit of help. According to my Father, my Great Grandfather very rarely spoke about his time of service– and like many others he was a changed man when he returned from the war, from the account of my late Nana (his daughter). My Nana told my Father that Fred witnessed a great tragedy, which was possibly the death of one of his fellow soldiers and after the incident became a military policeman. My father remembers Fred speaking about gunners, and that Fred may have possibly manned light/heavy artillery. My father also remembers holding Fred's service weapon, that possibly had a bayonet attached– which was sold/given away to a collector, shortly after this incident (as my Father was only a child when he picked it up, and began waving it about).

From what I can gather, from his release/leave certificate his army no. is "1769054"– but I could be incorrect, as I'm terrible at deciphering people's handwriting. Please do see the attached photographs, and see whether you can gather any further information from them. It looks like my Great Grandfather, Fred was a part of one of the L.A.A (Light Anti-Aircraft) regiments, in the Royal Artillery. Could anyone tell me any information about his regiment, and possibly what his role would have been in said regiment? His rank on a form dated 1946 was L/BOR. Is this a labourer? I tried to Google the information, but was rather unsuccessful– I honestly don't know what I'm doing!

As you can (hopefully) see, I've attached quite a few photographs– I have more, but couldn't attach them all because of the file size limit. One photograph (I assume) shows his regiment– he's on the first row, third from the right. One of the postcards he sent to my Nana, Jean is also dated 1942, and sent from Egypt. He served in Cairo, according to his papers.

Could anyone possibly tell me, what I would receive, if I contacted the MOD for Fred's service records? Would I be able to find out what medals he was awarded? My Nana had some WW2 medals, which were sadly stolen. My family and I would love to find out what these medals were (even if they're just your generic service medals).

If anyone would like me to provide any further information, please do let me know. Thank you to anyone who has taken the time to read what I have wrote– I apologise that it's rather lengthy, and lacking in information!

Many thanks,
Jackie

 

Hi Jackie

Welcome to the forum

A major first step will be to obtain his service records - link - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records#how-to-apply-for-service-personnel-records - these should include his medal entitlement.

His rank is L/BDR (or L/Bdr) which is Lance Bombadier (in the Artillery), same as a Lance Corporal in the Army. I am sure others will be along soon and they will be able to confirm his service number.

TD

 

Hello Jackie,
Fred enlisted in the Royal Artillery in 1940. This is his RA attestation record.
Guy

 

Hello Jackie and welcome to the forum.

I see you are in good hands already

I attach an album from my Gallery with my father's service records. These are usually the type the MOD sends. Hope this helps.
[sharedmedia=gallery:albums:70]


Lesley

 

Hi,

You can see that in his RA attestation index record that he was transferred to REME in 1951 whilst on the reserve. Reserve liability lapsed on reaching 45 years.

All will be revealed when you obtain his service papers but IMHO it is likely the transfer to REME was purely administrative. My uncle was transferred from RA to Royal Engineers in 1951 while he was on the reserve.

Good Luck.

Steve Y

PS

The troops in the 2nd photo you posted don't appear to have RA cap badges so - whilst I'm no "cap badge" expert - I'd say they are probably Military Police.

 

Hello TD,
It was the letter D, and not O then– thank you for clearing that up; it left me rather confused. It's great to finally know his rank. And thank you for the warm welcome!
Thank you,
Jackie

Hello Guy,
This is wonderful bit of information, as it confirms that he did join on 25, July, 1940. I have a grade card marked with this date, but wasn't sure if it was to do with his enlistment, or not.
Many thanks

Hello Lesley,
Thank you for sharing your Father's service records with me! They've been really helpful; now I know what to expect when contact the MOD. It's good to know that the records are really quite in depth.
Thank you again,
Jackie

Hello Steve,
That would make sense, Steve! I'm going to get my Father to fill out the application for Fred's service records as soon as possible– reading through the forum has really motivated me. It would definitely make sense that the last photograph is of the military police, as he appears to be much older in that photograph.
Thank you,
Jackie

 

Hi Jackie

Looks like you have all the right help so far, his service number is confirmed by the attestation record above, and also his rank of L/Bdr as in the individual photo he has 1 stripe on his arm (as was my Dad).
Once you get his service records then you will find out his regiment, from that the regiments war diaries are at National Archives UK, and there are a couple of guys on this forum who charge a reasonable fee to get them for you.

Enjoy the researching!

regards

Robert

 

*
Fred's service number is definitely Royal Artillery, but the cap badge on the third photo looks like the Royal Engineers grenade cap badge to me. As Steve Y says, his attestation record says he transferred to the REME.

Maybe there is more to his service...

 

Hello Robert,
Do you know whether it's necessary to be in possession of the person's death certificate, that you're applying for service records for? Unfortunately we do not have Fred's death certificate, but we do have his marriage certificate. Not sure how we would go about getting a copy of his death certificate?
Many thanks,
Jackie

Hello Steve,
Do you think Fred has possibly been a part of three different units– RA, Royal Engineers, and REME? That's quite interesting. It looks like I'm going to have to do some research, before I contact the MOD. Hopefully I can get the correct documents together, and file my application soon.
Thank you,
Jackie

 

Hi

Find his record here - http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ - if he died before 1983, if after then read here-
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/birth-marriage-death-england-and-wales/

regards

Robert

 

Here's the other photographs that I was unable to include in my original post. One shows Fred in his full uniform– not sure if it's very helpful though, as it doesn't give a clear view of the hat he's wearing. I've managed to find out the date of his death (June 21, 1971), from a newspaper clipping my Nana kept– she was great with things like that. Unfortunately still no sign of his death certificate.

 

Hello Robert,
Thank you for the links. I just found the date of his death whilst rooting through some newspaper clippings. Unfortunately I can't find his death certificate, so it looks like I'll have to purchase a copy before I can begin my application form to the MOD.
Thank you for all your help,
Jackie

 

*
I didn't know that, Owen. So I've learned something new today!

Best,

Steve.

 

Hi Jackie

What was Freds date of birth?? - with that info I can if you need find his death certificate details from Ancestry

TD

 

The second photograph looks like an infantry cap badge to me. A copy of his service records will clear up what units he served with.

 

Hello TD,
That would be wonderful, thank you! I believe Fred was born on the 19th September, 1909.
Many thanks,
Jackie

 

Hello Owen,
You seem quite knowledgable on the subject. I don't suppose yourself, or anyone who frequents the forum could possibly inform me what the role of a gunner in the RA, in the L.A.A entails? It's a rather silly question, but the acronyms and military jargons are making it rather difficult for me to Google the role. Would Fred have used (light?) artillery weapons on the ground to support infantry(?) ground troops?
Kind regards,
Jackie

 

Could anyone possibly tell me the significance of the grave in this photograph? I believe the middle grave with the flowers laid in front of it is the one of significance. I remember my Father mentioning that one of Fred's friends, who was in the army died. But that would have been many years after WW2 ended. The middle grave reads "RASC, 14591350, DVR. TROLLOPE.G. - 11.5.45"