French Panthers & Spanish '88's

Que????? 88??? Que? Panther?? Von Poop?? Que?????

Best of luck VP!!

 

Crazy gringos!

 

Looky here:
El Gran Capitán. Historia Militar :: Ver tema - Que me pueden decir de los cañones de 88 mm alemanes
And this on Panthers, not any FF stuff I don't think but some pictures I've never seen afore....
El Gran Capitán. Historia Militar :: Ver tema - PzKpfw V Panther y sus variantes.

 

Thought I'd email them to spare your blushes.
This is what I said.
ihycm@et.mde.es


Babel fish translates it thus.

Yes, and this is the reply you got!!!!:

No, cogida de la concha

 

This is a bit off topic, but it's something I'd like to tell. When I started looking into the Portuguese army I started hearing things about the 88s, and my ears were severely prickled! After some enquiries it turned out the Portuguese 88s were 25pdrs after all, but referred to by their calibre in milimitres, which by coincidence turned out to be 88. But there were enough 105s and a few 150s (leFH18 and sFH18) to keep my nazi sympathies happy

 

They probably won't understand your English either!

 

FINNISH ARMY 1918 - 1945: ANTIAIRCRAFT GUNS PART 3

88 ItK/37 RMB and 88 ItK/37 RMBK "Rämäpää"
(88 mm antiaircraft gun M/37 RMB mobile and static version)
(8, 8 cm Flak 37)


</B>PICTURE: Static version of 88-mm AA-gun M/37 . (Photo taken in Hyrylä). CLICK THUMBNAIL TO SEE LARGER PIC (68 KB).
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=595 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Calibre:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>88 mm x 571 R
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Length of weapon:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>762 cm (in battle-station) aka L/56
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Barrel length:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>493 cm
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Length of rifling:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>412 cm
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Weight in action:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>5000 kg
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Weight travelling:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>7200 kg
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Fire-rate:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>15 - 20 shots/minute
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Around 12/minute in long lasting firing
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Muzzle velocity:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>820 - 850 m/sec (HE) (*)
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Magazine:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>None
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Traverse:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>2 x 360 degrees
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Elevation:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>- 3 degrees,+ 85 degrees
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Max. range:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Against air targets 10600 m
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Effective range against air targets 6000 m
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Against ground targets 14860 m
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Country of origin:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Germany
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="25%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>Ammunition types:
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="3%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="61%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>HE, APHE
</TD><TD vAlign=top width="11%" bgColor=#c0c0c0 height=4>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Finnish use: 18 guns of mobile version bought in spring of 1943. 72 static guns bought in summer of 1944. These guns were used in air-defence of Finland's most important cities.


</B>PICTURE: Static version of 88-mm AA-gun M/37 seen from another angle. As usual many of the istruments are missing. (Photo taken in Hyrylä). CLICK THUMBNAIL TO SEE LARGER PIC (66 KB).
This was one version of the world-famous German "88". First version called 8.8 cm Flak 18 was designed for Rheinmetall by German engineers, which worked for Bofors earlier so the gun had clear similarities to 75 mm Bofors M/29. The calibre itself wasn't new in German AA-weaponry as Krupp and Rheinmetall had already tested specially made AA-gun of that calibre during WW1. Germans started production of Flak 18 in 1933 and introduced it to large-scale military use in 1935. Just next year they introduced improved Flak 36-version with rectangular mounting platform (Flak 18 had octagonal one) and new kind of barrel, which made replacing too worn-down barrel-parts easier. Some parts of Flak 36 had also been modified to make them easier and cheaper to mass-produce and to make maintenance easier. Fuse setters and aiming system of Flak 36 had also improvements, which made using the gun easier and more effective. Development continued as only year later Flak 37 version was introduced, its changes were smaller but still important as it came with new improved direction indicator system, which was connected to mechanical fire control computer with 108-strand cable. With its new direction indicator system Flak 37 could be aimed more precisely then previous versions. All previously mentioned versions (Flak 18, Flak 36 and Flak 37) used same ammunition and largely shared the same spare-parts. Mobile versions of all of them also used 2 axle and 4-wheeled limber used for transporting them. When set to fire position they had the usual column mount on top of a cruciform platform. One could have expected development of German 88-mm AA-gun to stop after Flak 36, but it didn't: At 1941 Germans introduced Flak 41 version, which used more powerful ammunition, had longer barrel and also considerably larger range. But Flak 41 was never produced in such numbers as earlier 88-mm AA-guns. 8,8 cm Flak was tested in Spanish Civil War and proved there equally effective against ground targets also, this marked the beginning its dual role. After being issued with new Pzgr. 40 AP-rounds and gun shields in 1940 the guns was ready for the fame of being fearsome antitank-weapon, which it gathered in the desert of North Africa. Germany manufactured 88-mm AA-guns to its use in very large numbers and used them until end of WW2. "German 88" gathered itself legendary reputation during World War 2 and remained in use of several countries even long after it.


</B>PICTURE: Mobile (towed) version of 88-mm AA-gun M/37 on its trailer. (Photo taken in Ilmailumuseo). CLICK THUMBNAIL TO SEE LARGER PIC (97 KB).


</B>PICTURE: Meters of transmission device 36 used in 88 ItK/37. Wheel on the left is for traverse and the one on the right is for elevation.(Photo taken in Maneesi of Sotamuseo). CLICK THUMBNAIL TO SEE LARGER PIC (35 KB).
First batch, which Finland bought in spring of 1943, had 18 guns of mobile M/37 version. Another batch containing 72 guns of static M/37 version was delivered in June of 1944. The guns of first batch were all stationed as three 6-gun batteries in air-defence of Helsinki while half of the second batch was located in Helsinki and the another half divided to 3 different cities. More precisely: From second batch 36 guns were located to Helsinki where they armed four 6-gun batteries and one 12-gun battery, the another 36 guns went to cities of Turku, Tampere and Kotka, which each got two 6-gun batteries. Finnish soldiers nicknamed 88-mm ItK/37 as "Rämäpää" (daredevil) after its manufacturer RMB (Rheinmetall-Borsig). The Finns never used 88 against ground targets during WW2 because as previously told all the guns were used in air-defence of most important Finnish cities. The guns were used with Lambda M/40 (German "Kommando Gerät 40" aka "Kappa-Gerät") and Delta M/35 (German "Kommando Hilfs Gerät 35") mechanical fire control computers. In the same delivery with first batch of these guns arrived also first Finnish radar: Two M/40 "Raija" (German FuMG "Freya" A1) for spotting incoming enemy aircraft and six M/39 Wurtzberg C "Irja" (German FuMG 62 Wurtzberg 39 T, version C) for fire control of heavy antiaircraft-gun batteries. 88 ItK/37 was the best heavy AA-gun in Finnish use. First batch these excellent guns and radar delivered with them proved excellent help during massive Soviet air-attacks to Helsinki in February of 1944. These guns were also the last ones of the heavy AA-guns being used as AA-weapons, crews for them were trained until 1967 and they remained reserved in Finnish AA-weaponry until 1977. After this the remaining guns were transferred to coastal artillery and remained reserved to be used as coastal-defence guns until late 1990's.
Finnish military used five kind of ammunition with its 88-mm anti-aircraft guns:
"88 itakrv 50/60-RMB" (German made HE-shell with 900 g of amatol, projectile weight 9.0 kg, muzzle velocity 837 m/sec)
"88 itakrv rj 50/60-RMB" (German made HE-shell with 900 g of amatol, projectile weight 9.0 kg, muzzle velocity 837 m/sec)
"88 psakrv 54/65-K" (German made APHE-shell with 117 g of amatol and 31 g of penthrit, projectile weight 9.5 kg, muzzle velocity 820 m/sec)
"88 psakrv rj 54/65-K" (German made APHE-shell with 117 g of amatol and 31 g of penthrit, projectile weight 9.5 kg, muzzle velocity 820 m/sec)
"88 pshkrv 54/65-K" (German made APHE-shell with 64 g of RDX, projectile weight 10.2 kg, muzzle velocity 820 m/sec)

 

Maybe found a little more on Spanish 88's. They have another in this museum.

Edit: Number 11 on the list

P.S. I think that this picture is of an 88 in Spanish service.

 

I see Spain produced 88's under licence, still can't find an official 'Spanish' designation which might help with a web-search.

Spanish designation FT-44