German Aircraft Carriers

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by paulyb102, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. paulyb102

    paulyb102 Member

    I find this topic very odd indeed,

    Basically the Germans went the entire duration of WW2 without having a single flat top, two were mooted and i think one was actually being built, before all of a sudden being broken up, possibly because the metals on board were required elsewhere.

    I think this Ship was called the Graf Zeppelin

    Is it any wonder that the German Surface fleet as powerful as it was, suffered so badly.

    The Americans made approx 55 Aircraft Carriers plus a further 88 escort carriers during the war, the British 64, the japs 23 and Germany 0.

    I do,nt know how many Italy had, but i have a funny feeling that it was 0 too

    The sole reason the Bismark met its end was that a carrier borne swordfish caught up with it and disabled its rudder, it,s yet another example of German shortcomings.

    paulyb102

    P.s. have just found this lot out about the u.s. carriers

    CV1 USS LANGLEY

    CV2 USS LEXINGTON

    CV3 USS SARATOGA

    CV4 USS RANGER

    CV5 USS YORKTOWN

    CV6 USS ENTERPRISE

    CV7 USS WASP

    CV8 USS HORNET

    CV9 USS ESSEX

    CV10 USS YORKTOWN (EX BON HOMME RICHARDS)

    CV11 USS INTREPID

    CV12 USS HORNET (EX KEARSARGE)

    CV13 USS FRANKLIN

    CV14 USS TICONDEROGA

    CV15 USS RANDOLPH

    CV16 USS LEXINGTON

    CV17 USS BUNKERHILL

    CV18 USS WASP (EX ORISKANY)

    CV19 USS HANCOCK (EX TICONDEROGA)

    CV20 USS BENNINGTON

    CV21 USS BOXER

    CVL22 USS INDEPENDENCE

    CVL23 USS PRINCETON

    CVL24 USS BELLEAU WOOD

    CVL25 USS COWPENS

    CVL26 USS MONTEREY

    CVL27 USS LANGLEY

    CVL28 USS CABOT

    CVL29 USS BATAAN

    CVL30 USS SAN JACINTO

    CV31 USS BON HOMME RICHARD

    CV32 USS LEYTE (EX CROWN POINT)

    CV33 USS KEARSARGE

    CV34 USS ORISKANY

    CV35 USS REPRISAL

    CV36 USS ANTIETAM

    CV37 USS PRINCETON

    CV38 USS SHANGRI LA

    CV39 USS LAKE CHAMPLAIN

    CV40 USS TARAWA

    CVB41 USS MIDWAY

    CVB42 USS FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT

    CVB43 USS CORAL SEA

    CV45 USS VALLEY FORGE

    CV47 USS PHILIPPINE SEA

    CVL48 USS SAIPAN

    CVL49 USS WRIGHT

    CVA59 USS FORRESTAL

    CVA60 USS SARATOGA

    CVA61 USS RANGER

    CVA62 USS INDEPENDENCE

    CVA63 USS KITTYHAWK

    CVA64 USS CONSTELLATION

    CVA65 USS ENTERPRISE

    CVA66 USS AMERICA

    Ship Name Launch Date Fate
    USS Langley (CV1) 24th August 1912 She had to be sunk on 27th February 1942 by her escort USS Whipple after being hit by Japanese bombers.
    Lexington Class View Class

    USS Lexington (CV2) 3rd October 1925 Sunk on 8th May 1942.

    USS Saratoga (CV3) 7th April 1925 Scrapped 25th July 1946.
    Ranger Class
    USS Ranger (CV4) 25th February 1931 Served in North Africa and British Home Fleet during World War II. Sold for scrapping on 28th January 1947.
    Yorktown Class View Class

    USS Yorktown (CV5) 4th April 1936 Sunk on 7th June 1942.

    USS Enterprise (CV6) 3rd October 1936 Refitted in 1943 she took part in most of
    the carrier battles in the Pacific. Sold for scrapping on 1st July 1958.

    USS Wasp(CV7) 4th April 1939 Sunk on 15th October 1942.
    Escort Aircraft Carriers

    USS Hornet (CV8) 14th December 1940 Sunk on 24th October 1942.
    Wasp Class

    USS Long Island (CVE1) 11th January 1940 Served as a transport and training carrier during WWII. Sold to be converted to a merchant ship and renamed Nelly in 1949 then again as Seven Seas in 1953.

    USS Charger (CVE30) 1st March 1941 Served as a training ship she never saw active service and was sold to be converted to a merchant ship and renamed Fairsea in 1949.
    Sangamon Class
    USS Sangamon (CVE26) 4th November 1939 Participated in Operation Torch in 1942 and then moved to Pacific as transport, training and combat carrier. Damaged and repaired after bomb and kamikaze attacks. Scrapped 1948.
    USS Suwannee (CVE27) 4th March 1939 Participated in Operation Torch in 1942 and then moved to Pacific. Damaged by bombs in October 1944 and by internal explosion in May 1945. Scrapped 1962.
    USS Chenago (CVE28) 1st April 1939 Participated in Operation Torch and then moved to Pacific in 1943. Scrapped c1948.
    USS Santee (CVE29) 4th March 1939 Participated in Operation Torch and then moved to Pacific in 1944 as supply and transport carrier. Torpedoed at Samar in 1944 but repaired. Scrapped c.1948.
    Bogue Class
    USS Bogue (CVE9) 15th January 1942 Served as an anti submarine and transport carrier during the war. Scrapped in 1960.
    USS Card (CVE11) 21st February 1942 Served in the Atlantic as anti submarine and transport carrier during WWII. Used for pilot training post war. Mined while serving off Saigon, raised and repaired, but eventually scrapped 1971.
    USS Copahee (CVE12) 21st October 1941 Transport carrier in the Pacific. Scrapped in 1960s.
    USS Core (CVE13) 15th May 1942 Served in the Atlantic as anti submarine and transport carrier during WWII. Scrapped in 1961.
    USS Nassau (CVE16) 4th April 1942 Used for aircraft transport in Pacific during WWII. Scrapped in 1961.
    USS Altamaha (CVE18) 22nd May 1942 Served in the Pacific as anti submarine and transport carrier during WWII. Scrapped in 1961.
    USS Barnes (CVE20) 22nd May 1942 Served in the Pacific as a transport carrier during WWII. Scrapped in 1960s.
    USS Block Island (CVE21) 6th June 1942 Sunk by torpedoes from U549 in May 1944 while in Atlantic on transport and anti submarine duties.
    USS Breton (CVE23) 27th June 1942 Served in the Pacific as aircraft transport carrier during WWII and in 1950s. Scrapped in 1972.
    USS Croatan (CVE25) 3rd August 1942 Served as an anti submarine and transport carrier in Atlantic. Was used for experiments by NASA in 1964-65. Eventually scrapped in 1971.
    USS Prince William (CVE31) 23rd August 1942 Served in the Pacific as a transport carrier during 1944 then moved to the Atlantic as a training and transport ship. Scrapped in 1960s.
    Essex Class View Class

    USS Essex (CV9) 31st July 1942 Scrapped on 15th June 1975.
    USS Yorktown (ex Bon Homme Richard) (CV10) 21st January 1943 Preserved as a memorial in June 1973.
    USS Intrepid (CV11) 26th April 1943 Decommissioned on 15th March 1974.
    USS Hornet (CV12) 30th August 1943 Decommissioned on 26th June 1970.
    USS Franklin (CV13) 14th October 1943 Scrapped on 1st October 1964.
    USS Ticonderoga (CV14) 7th February 1944 Scrapped on 16th November 1973.
    USS Randolph (CV15) 29th June 1944 Scrapped on 15th June 1973.
    USS Lexington (CV16) 26th September 1942 Became CVT in 1980.
    USS Bunker Hill (CV17) 7th December 1942 Scrapped 1st November 1966.
    USS Wasp (CV18) 17th August 1943 Scrapped 1st July 1972.
    USS Hancock (CV19) 17th August 1943 Scrapped 31st January 1976.
    USS Bennington (CV20) 26th February 1944 Decommissioned on 15th January 1970.
    USS Boxer (CV21) 14th December 1944 Scrapped sometime after 1st December 1969.
    USS Bon Homme Richard (CV31) 29th April 1944 Decommissioned on 2nd July 2971.
    USS Leyte (CV32) 23rd August 1945 Scrapped on 1st June 1969.
    USS Kearsarge (CV33) 5th May 1945 Scrapped on 1st May 1973.
    USS Oriskany (CV34) 13th October 1945 Redesigned before completion to carry jets. Decommissioned on 30th September 1976.
    USS Antietam (CV36) 20th August 1944 Scrapped 1st May 1973.
    USS Princeton (CV37) 8th July 1945 Scrapped 30th January 1970.
    USS Shangri La (CV38) 24th February 1944 Decommissioned 30th July 1971.
    USS Lake Champlain (CV39) 2nd November 1944 Scrapped 1st December 1969.
    USS Tarawa (CV40) 12th May 1945 Scrapped 1st June 1967.
    USS Valley Forge (CV45) 18th November 1945 Scrapped 15th January 1970.
    USS Philippine Sea (CV47) 5th September 1945 Scrapped 1st December 1969.
    Independence Class View Class
    USS Independence (CVL22) 22nd August 1942 Scrapped by 29th January 1951.
    USS Princeton (CVL23) 18th October 1942 Sunk on 24th October 1944.
    USS Belleau Wood (CVL24) 6th December 1942 Transferred to France in September 1953.
    USS Cowpens (CVL25) 17th January 1943 Sold for scrap on 1st November 1959.
    USS Monterey (CVL26) 28th February 1943 Scrapped on 1st June 1970.
    USS Langley (CVL27) 22nd May 1943 Transferred to France in January 1951.
    USS Cabot (CVL28) 4th April 1943 Transferred to Spain on 30th August 1967.
    USS Bataan (CVL29) 1st August 1943 Sold for scrap on 1st September 1959.
    USS San Jacinto (CVL30) 26th September 1943 Scrapped on 1st June 1970.

    USS Sable (IX81) 27th October 1923 Scrapped in 1949.
    Casablanca Class
    USS Casablanca (CVE55) 5th April 1943 Used as a transport and training ship in the Pacific during WW2. Scrapped in 1961.
    USS Liscombe Bay (CVE56) 19th April 1943 Torpedoed and sunk by Japanese submarine I175 on 24th November 1943.
    USS Anzio (CVE57) 1st May 1943 Originally named Coral Sea she was renamed Anzio in September 1944. Served in Pacific 1944-46. Reserve fleet and used as a helicopter carrier in July 1958. Scrapped in 1960.
    USS Corregidor (CVE58) 12th May 1943 Served as a training ship and anti submarine carrier during the war. Used as a transport ship during Korean War. Scrapped in 1960.
    USS Mission Bay (CVE59) 26th May 1943 Served in the Atlantic as anti submarine and escort carrier during WW2. Placed in reserve in 1947. Sold for scrapping in 1960.
    USS Guadalcanal (CVE60) 5th June 1943 Served as an anti submarine and escort carrier during the war, capturing U505 in May 1944. Went into reserve in 1946 and scrapped 1960.
    USS Manila Bay (CVE61) 10th July 1943 Served in the Pacific from 1943-45. After repairs from a kamikaze strike she went into reserve from 1946. Sold and scrapped in 1960.
    USS Natoma Bay (CVE62) 20th July 1943 Served as a transport carrier in the Pacific then as a pilot training ship during WW2. Also hit by kamikaze in June 1945 and repaired. Reserve in 1946 until sold 1959 for scrapping.
    USS St Lo (CVE63) 17th August 1943 Served as an escort carrier. A kamikaze strike set off a series of explosions which ended in her sinking on 15th October 1944.
    USS Tripoli (CVE64) 2nd September 1943 Used as an anti submarine carrier and escort before serving as a transport and training ship from 1945. Broken up in 1960.
    USS Wake Island (CVE65) 15th September 1943 Served in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans as combat ship and later escort and training ship. Hit by two kamikazes while at Okinawa she was repaired but scrapped in 1947.
    USS White Plains (CVE66) 27th September 1943 Served as a transport, training and combat carrier in the Pacific. Repaired after kamikaze attack in October 1944. Scrapped in 1959.
    USS Solomons (CVE67) 6th October 1943 Served initially in Pacific but transferred to Atlantic from 1944. Scrapped in 1947.
    USS Kalinin Bay (CVE68) 15th October 1943 Served in the Pacific during WW2. Took alot of damage after kamikaze and gunfire attacks. Scrapped 1947.
    USS Kasaan Bay (CVE69) 24th October 1943 Used as a transport ship at Pearl Harbor and then in the Med supporting the landings in 1944. Moved to Pacific in 1945, placed in reserve in 1955. Sold for scrap in 1960.
    USS Fanshaw Bay (CVE70) 1st November 1943 Served in Pacific taking damage from Japanese bombs in 1944. Reserve fleet after the war and scrapped in 1959.
    USS Kitkun Bay (CVE71) 8th November 1943 Used as a transport and training ship in the Pacific during 1944 and later used as combat ship. Took damage after a kamikaze attack but was repaired. Scrapped in 1959.
    USS Tulagi (CVE72) 15th November 1943 Served in Atlantic and Pacific during 1944 as a transport and anti submarine ship. Took part in Allied landings in 1944 and at Okinawa in 1945. Scrapped in 1947.
    USS Gambier Bay (CVE73) 22nd November 1943 Served in the Pacific before being sunk by Japanese cruisers Chokai, Hagura and Noshiro on 25th October 1944.
    USS Nehenta Bay (CVE74) 28th November 1943 Served in the Pacific until 1946. Scrapped in 1960.
    USS Hoggatt Bay (CVE75) 4th December 1943 Served in the Pacific. Repaired after an explosion in January 1945. Served in Okinawa operation. Scrapped in September 1959.
    USS Kadashan Bay (CVE76) 11th December 1943 Served in Pacific and was used as a transport and support ship
    USS Marcus Island (CVE77) 16th December 1943 Used as a transport ship until put into reserve in 1946. Became CVHE77 in June 1955 then AKV27 in May 1959 before being scrapped in 1960.
    USS Savo Island (CVE78) 22nd December 1943 Used as a aircraft transport ship, she was damaged by Kamikaze attack in 1945. Reserve fleet in 1946 she was scrapped in 1960s.
    USS Ommaney Bay (CVE79) 29th December 1943 Took severe damage from Kamikaze attacks and had to be sunk by the destroyer Burns sometime in January 1945.
    USS Petrof Bay (CVE80) 5th January 1944 Initially used to transport aircraft she served at Guadalcanal and later in the Leyte, Iwo Jima and Okinawa actions. Reserve in July 1946 until scrapped in 1959.
    USS Rudyerd Bay (CVE81) 12th January 1944 Reserve fleet in June 1946, became CVU in 1955 and then AKV26 in 1959. Scrapped 1960.
    USS Saginaw Bay (CVE82) 19th January 1944 Reserve fleet in June 1946 and scrapped in 1960.
    USS Sargent Bay (CVE83) 31st January 1944 Used as support carrier in the Pacific during the war. Served in the Iwo Jima and Okinawa actions. Reserve fleet in 1946 until scrapped in 1959.
    USS Shamrock Bay (CVE84) 4th February 1944 Used as aircraft transport ship in the Atlantic in 1944. Took part in the assaults on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Scrapped in 1959.
    USS Shipley Bay (CVE85) 12th February 1944 Used as transport carrier and training ship. Reserve in 1946 and scrapped in 1959.
    USS Sitkoh Bay (CVE86) 19th February 1944 Used as a resupply ship during the war she was then became an aircraft transport ship during the Korean War. Scrapped in 1961.
    USS Steamer Bay (CVE87) 26th February 1944 Initially used to transport aircraft she later served at Lingayen Gulf, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Repaired after collision with destroyer USS Hale and after an aircraft crashed on landing in 1945. Reserve fleet in 1947, scrapped in 1955.
    USS Cape Esperance (CVE88) 3rd March 1944 Used to transport aircraft during WWII, she also served as transport in the Korean War. Scrapped in 1961.
    USS Takanis Bay (CVE89) 10th March 1944 Used for training and transport during WWII. Reserve fleet in 1946, scrapped in 1960.
    USS Thetis Bay (CVE90) 16th March 1944 Used as a transport ship in WWII. Reserve 1946-1955. Converted to an amphibious assault ship in 1955-56 becoming CVHA in July 1956. Served in Pacific and Atlantic oceans. Scrapped in 1966.
    USS Makassar Strait (CVE91) 22nd March 1944 Used as an aircraft transport ship in the Pacific from 1944-45. Took part in Okinawa action. Used as a target and sunk in 1962.
    USS Windham Bay (CVE92) 29th March 1944 Used as a transport and training ship during WWII. Used as a transport in 1951 she was eventually sold for scrap in 1961.
    USS Makin Island (CVE93) 5th April 1944 Took part in the campaigns of Lingayen Gulf, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Scrapped in 1947.
    USS Lunga Point (CVE94) 11th April 1944 Served in Pacific in 1944 and took part in Iwo Jima action sustaining damage from kamikaze attacks. Participated in Okinawa landings but was scrapped in 1960.
    USS Bismarck Sea (CVE95) 17th April 1944 Participated in the Iwo Jima campaign but was sunk by a kamikaze attacks on 21st February 1945.
    USS Salamaua (CVE96) 22nd April 1944 Served in Pacific as a transport ship, anti submarine carrier and combat carrier during WWII. Damaged by kamikaze attack, Iwo Jima in 1945. Scrapped 1947.
    USS Hollandia (CVE97) 28th April 1944 Used as a transport and training ship during WWII. Scrapped in 1960.
    USS Kwajalein (CVE98) 4th May 1944 Used as a transport ship during WWII in Pacific. Scrapped in 1960.
    USS Admiralty Islands (CVE99) 10th May 1944 Used as a transport ship during WWII but also participated in the Iwo Jima and Okinawa campaigns. Sold for scrap in 1946.
    USS Bougainville (CVE100) 16th May 1944 Used as a transport ship during WWII but also took part in the Iwo Jima and Okinawa campaigns. Scrapped 1960.
    USS Matanikau (CVE101) 22nd May 1944 Used as a transport ship in the Pacific during WWII. Scrapped 1961.
    USS Attu (CVE102) 27th May 1944 Used as a transport ship in the Pacific during WWII. Scrapped after 1946.
    USS Roi (CVE103) 2nd June 1944 Used as a resupply ship during WWII. Scrapped 1947.
    USS Munda (CVE104) 8th June 1944 Used as support ship during WWII. Scrapped 1961.
    Commencement Bay Class View Class
    USS Commencement Bay (CVE105) 9th May 1944 Used as a pilot training ship stationed in the Pacific. Reserve fleet in November 1946 she became a helicopter carrier in June 1955 as CVHE. Designated as AKV37 in May 1959 before scrapping after 1971.
    USS Block Island (CVE106) 10th June 1944 Served in Pacific in 1945, became a school-ship after 1946. Served in the Atlantic in 1951 until put into reserve in 1954. Sold for breaking in 1959.
    USS Gilbert Islands (CVE107) (Later USS Annapolis) 20th July 1944 Took part in Okinawa landings and served with the Pacific Fleet until 1945. Taken out of reserve in 1951 to serve in Korean War operations. Reserve in 1955, she was converted to a communications relay ship in 1961, renamed Annapolis. Served in Vietnam from 1965 -1969. Marked for scrapping in October 1976.
    USS Kula Gulf (CVE108) 15th August 1944 Served in Pacific until end of WW2. Used for transport and training in 1950 during the Korean War. Served as anti submarine carrier in the Atlantic from 1953-55. Taken out of reserve and used as aircraft transport ship during Vietnam War. Scrapped in 1971.
    USS Cape Gloucester (CVE109) 12th September 1944 Served in Pacific in July 1945. Put into reserve in 1946, became CVHE in June 1955. Marked for scrapping in 1971.
    USS Salerno Bay (CVE110) 26th September 1944 Used for aircrew training but put into reserve in 1947. Became an anti submarine carrier in 1951 until 1954. Became AKV10 in May 1959 before being sold fro scrap in 1961.
    USS Vella Gulf (CVE111) 19th October 1944 Used as a training ship and placed in reserve by August 1946. Designated CVHE108 in 1955, then AKV11 in May 1959. Marked for scrapping by 1970.
    USS Siboney (CVE12) 9th November 1944 Served in Pacific at end of WW2. Reserve in 1947 but used as a transport ship in 1948. Removed from reserve in 1951 to serve in Korean War as anti submarine carrier. Served in Atlantic and the Med. Reserve by 1956 and scrapped in 1971.
    USS Puget Sound (CVE113) 30th November 1944 After a short operational career, she was put into reserve fleet, becoming CVHE in July 1955 then AKV13 in May 1959. Scrapped 1962.
    USS Rendova (CVE114) 28th December 1944 Used as a training ship in the Indian and Pacific oceans and saw service during Korean War. Scrapped in 1971.
    USS Bairoko (CVE115) 25th January 1945 Served in the Korean War and took part in hydrogen bomb tests. Scrapped in Hong Kong in 1961.
    USS Badoeng Strait (CVE116) 15th February 1945 Took part in Navy trials for anti submarine carriers during 1945-1951. Served during Korean War. Scrapped c.1971.
    USS Saidor (CVE117) 17th March 1945 Used for studying photographic reconnaissance during Bikini Atoll tests. Scrapped in 1971.
    USS Sicily (CVE118) 14th April 1945 Served in Korean War 1950-52. Reserve fleet in early 1960s then sold for scrap.
    USS Point Cruz (CVE119) 18th May 1945 Used as a transport carrier in Vietnam War 1965-1970. Reserve fleet from 1947-51. Served in Korean War in 1953 before being scrapped in 1971.
    USS Mindoro (CVE120) 27th June 1945 Used as a training ship and anti submarine carrier from 1946-1955. Became AKV20 before scrapping in 1960.
    USS Rabaul (CVE121) 14th July 1945 Placed in reserve upon completion, becoming CVHE in 1955 and AKV21 in 1959. She was scrapped in 1972.
    USS Palau (CVE122) 6th August 1945 Served in Atlantic with 6th Fleet and also as a transport ship. Scrapped in 1960.
    USS Tinian (CVE123) 5th September 1945 Placed in reserve upon completion, becoming CVHE in 1955 and AKV23 in 1959. She was scrapped in 1971.
    Midway Class View Class
    USS Midway (CVB41) 20th March 1945 Became CV41 in October 1952. She took part in the Vietnam War from April until November 1965. She was stationed with the Pacific Fleet at Yokosuka from 1973.
    USS Franklin D Roosevelt (CVB42) 29th April 1945 Became CVA42 in October 1952. Served off Vietnam in 1966. Became CV42 in July 1975 before being scrapped on 1st October 1977.
    USS Coral Sea (CVB43) 2nd April 1946 Became CVA43 in October 1952. Became the first carrier to use F4H Phantoms. Took part in the Vietnam War from February 1965 until the end. Became a part time training ship in 1977 as well as a back-up carrier. She was stationed with the Pacific Fleet.
    Saipan Class

    USS Saipan (CVL48) 8th July 1945 Initially a pilot training ship but in 1948 took on the first Navy jet fighters (FH1). Placed in reserve in 1957 and two years later became AVT6. Converted to a command ship and became USS Arlington (AGMR2) in 1966. Took part in the Vietnam War as a communications headquarters. Scrapped 15th August 1975.
    USS Wright (CVL49) 1st September 1945 Initially a pilot training ship she later took part in the hunter-killer forces in the Atlantic. Took part in the nuclear tests in the Pacific in 1955. Designated AVT7 in May 1959 she was then converted to a command ship in 1962, becoming CC2 in 1963. Scrapped 1st December 1977.
     
  2. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    The Graf Zeppelin was a victim of the disorganization and feuding of the German high command. The Navy controlled the ship. Goering insisted the Luftwaffe control the planes. Construction was stop-and-go all through the war. The Luftwaffe did assign a squadron of Me 109Ts and Ju 87s to the carrier, but they wound up on the Eastern Front when construction was finally halted with the ship nearly complete. She was captured relatively intact in Stettin by the Soviets, who tried to sail her back to Leningrad, loaded down with looted railway freight cars (trucks). She sank while under tow. I don't have her statistics on hand, but I know there are a few good web pages on the German Navy that probably do.
     
  3. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    The Germans had a few powerful ships, but they didn't really have a significant surface fleet compared to the British or Americans.

    I can see that aircraft carriers might have been some use in the Baltic, but otherwise what mission could they have been used for where they needed to project airpower at sea?

    If they had been used in the Atlantic for raiding convoys, I think that they would have fallen prey to land based aircraft in the later stages of the war, even apart from allied carriers.
     
  4. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    The Germans sought to develop aircraft carriers to support their convoy raiders, particularly their battlecruisers and battleships. Their bombers and fighters would be the eyes of a raiding squadron, and they would also enable it to defeat battleship-escorted convoys, and fend off British carriers or long-range reconnaissance aircraft. The program was part of the Z-Plan, which by 1943, would have given the German Navy an immensely powerful force of several Bismarck-class battlewagons, and up-gunned Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 15-inch guns. The war started too early for Raeder's tastes.
     
  5. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    The war started too early for Raeder's tastes.



    Hitler had indicated that he would go to war in 1944, therefore, the german Navy produced Plan Z and initially stuck to it. The result was that they were not in a good position when war broke out in 1939.

    The Original plan was for:-

    A) 6 battleships of 50,000 tons (in addition to Bismarck and The Tirpitz)

    B) 8 (Later 12) cruisers of 20,000

    C) 4 aircraft carriers of of 20, 000

    D) a large number of light cruisers

    E) 233 U-boats


    source memoirs Adm Karl Doenitz PP37-8

    In addittion, had Germany managed to build aircraft carriers then there was still the problem of crewing the ships, especially with seaman officers who had handled large aircraft carriers both at sea and in harbour. Also, supply purpose built aircraft of the right type for naval operations.

    the latter, i beleive would be nigh on impossible give the chaotic state of aircraft production
     
  6. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    The production situation in Germany was a mess until Speer imposed order in 1944. The Germans tried to have guns and butter in an economy that was heavily dependent on imports and riddled with internal political feuding, competing empires, kleptomania, corruption, and war.
     
  7. Pte1643

    Pte1643 Member

    I appolgise for being a little "off topic", but the British went to war knowing the Royal Navy was the most powerful naval force at the time.

    Sad when you look at it now eh... :(

    Mark
     
  8. paulyb102

    paulyb102 Member

    Yes Great Britain certainly is,nt the Naval power it once was.
    We did have roughly 250 carriers, battleships, cruisers, and destroyers in WW2, nowadays Britain has just over 30, however the capabilities of just one Royal Navy ship of today, would probably match or surpass those 250 ww2 ships.

    Paulyb102 :D
     
  9. Dpalme01

    Dpalme01 Member

    Germany knew that any surface ships that they built would be sunk by the british. The british had a far superior navy. The germans instead and started playing around with a relatively new type of navy as they were doing with almost every other aspect of the war
     
  10. Juanra

    Juanra Junior Member

  11. Hidden_Sniper

    Hidden_Sniper Junior Member

    I had no clue the Germans had aircraft carriers. I just thought that they were what the just were, U-BOAT lovers.
     
  12. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Hidden_Sniper@May 9 2005, 05:35 PM
    I had no clue the Germans had aircraft carriers. I just thought that they were what the just were, U-BOAT lovers.
    [post=34314]Quoted post[/post]
    You learn something new every day! :) Hitler and Goering launched the Graf Zeppelin, by the way, and Hitler inspected it briefly when he visited Gydnia to see the Bismarck off.
     
  13. Hidden_Sniper

    Hidden_Sniper Junior Member

    Yeah, that's something that I just learned. I am going to have to look up more on this subject.
     
  14. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    This is a fasinating subject and the article is very informative, especially about the end of the Graf Zeppelin. Good thread!!
     
  15. Hidden_Sniper

    Hidden_Sniper Junior Member

    Who headed the Graf Zepplin? and when was it launched
     
  16. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Hidden_Sniper@May 12 2005, 07:58 AM
    Who headed the Graf Zepplin? and when was it launched
    [post=34393]Quoted post[/post]
    I don't know who commanded it -- I don't think it ever reached that phase of its construction -- but it was launched by Hitler and Goering in 1939 with the usual German pomp and Nazi circumstance. Fatty was supposed to provide the squadrons and airmen and a squadron of Me 109Ts was ordered and created, which was configured for carrier landings and take-offs. The attack arm would have been naval versions of the Ju 87. It would have been a formidable combination.
     
  17. halfyank

    halfyank Member

    One thing many people forget to take into account concerning the German carriers is that Germany had NO experience operating such ships. Britain, Japan, and the US had had twenty some years experience in naval aviation. They had learned such things as how to deploy arrester cables, park aircraft, refuel and re-arm, etc. Even if Germany had completed these ships, and built aircraft to operate off them, the learning curve on how to operate aircraft at sea would make these ships pretty useless.
     
  18. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by halfyank@May 16 2005, 01:38 PM
    One thing many people forget to take into account concerning the German carriers is that Germany had NO experience operating such ships. Britain, Japan, and the US had had twenty some years experience in naval aviation. They had learned such things as how to deploy arrester cables, park aircraft, refuel and re-arm, etc. Even if Germany had completed these ships, and built aircraft to operate off them, the learning curve on how to operate aircraft at sea would make these ships pretty useless.
    [post=34514]Quoted post[/post]
    They would have had a terrible time trying to get up to speed on all aspects of carrier operations -- don't forget about the difficulties of maneuvering carriers into the wind for launch operations, and then forming up strike groups, and over-sea navigation. Notice the Graf Zeppelin was not to carry torpedo-bombers. The Italians were better at torpedo-bombing attacks than the Luftwaffe.
     
  19. angie999

    angie999 Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@May 16 2005, 01:38 PM
    a squadron of Me 109Ts was ordered and created
    [post=34497]Quoted post[/post]

    The Bf109 undercarriage was very lightweight and positioned poorly for all weather deck landing. It would have been difficult to redesign because of the lack of space to mount it in the wings, thus creating a wider wheelbase. It always was a difficult aircraft to land.

    I wonder if it really would have coped with operational carrier service.
     
  20. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    Originally posted by angie999+May 17 2005, 05:04 AM-->(angie999 @ May 17 2005, 05:04 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Kiwiwriter@May 16 2005, 01:38 PM
    a squadron of Me 109Ts was ordered and created
    [post=34497]Quoted post[/post]

    The Bf109 undercarriage was very lightweight and positioned poorly for all weather deck landing. It would have been difficult to redesign because of the lack of space to mount it in the wings, thus creating a wider wheelbase. It always was a difficult aircraft to land.

    I wonder if it really would have coped with operational carrier service.
    [post=34533]Quoted post[/post]
    [/b]I don't know offhand. I just know a squadron of Me 109Ts was created for the Graf. The reference is in Martin Caidin's book on the Me 109, called "Me 109," in the Ballantine series, which is at home, not in front of me. The Me 109 had an unstable undercarriage, as you say, and they had a tendency to groundloop or even collapse on take-off or landing. It also had poor visibility in its cage-like cockpit and required a constant jab on the rudder to stay on course. On the other hand, the fuel-injected engine prevented stalls at high speeds or in dives.
     

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