You have to differentiate between special forces and elite units. For instance, the Germans had a large number of parachute troops, who perhaps could be regarded as special up to the invasion of Crete, because nobody else was doing much in the way of airborne operations then, but they largely abandoned airborne operations after that and used the parachite troops as conventional elite light infantry. Similarly, although units like the allied arborne forces, commandos and rangers trained for and carried out operations which had special forces characteristics, as the war progressed the scale of their operations increased and they also were really elite light infantry with a range of specialist skills. True German special forces were on quite a small scale and more or less started with the force Skorzeny put together for the rescue of Mussolini. This small force then carried out a number of other missions, in Hungary, the Ardennes and against the Remagen bridge if I recall correctly, but they never developed on the scale of the British, where really it all started in the desert with units like the LRDG and the SAS.
Originally posted by angie999@Jun 26 2004, 03:23 AM True German special forces were on quite a small scale and more or less started with the force Skorzeny put together for the rescue of Mussolini. Wasn't there also something called the Brandenburg Division?
Originally posted by BeppoSapone@Jun 26 2004, 09:18 AM Wasn't there also something called the Brandenburg Division? Yes and there is a book in print about it which I have not read. In some descriptions it is described as a special forces unit under the control of the Abwehr which carried out SAS style operations, but this is a bit misleading. It appears to have started on a small scale as such a unit, but expanded and changed its role as the war progressed, so that by late 1944 it was a Panzer Grenadier division and part of the Panzerkorps Grossdeutschland, in other words, a convential elite unit. In some accounts, special forces and cloak and dagger style operations were not encouraged by the orthodox generals of the Heer and it is possible to see how such a special force would have fallen out of favour with the decline of the Abwehr. In this context, it is important to note that Skorzeny's unit was SS, the "rising star" as it were within the Wehrmacht.
you also have the 115th prussian marine stormtroopers who were trained to operate behind russian lines. Also, there was the werewolves at the end of the war. :ph34r: :ph34r:
The Gestapo were not a part of the army. They were more a political police force whose infleuence grew as Himmlers grew. Arm.
Originally posted by robh2k4@Jul 4 2004, 02:35 PM What part in the army where the gestapo in the german army? Others have answered your question about the Gestapo. The word "Gestapo" is made up from the start of the German words for "Secret State Police" - Geheime Staats Polizei.
Originally posted by morse1001@Jul 5 2004, 01:52 AM The gestapo were the secret police force. They were started by Goring in 1933 ish. As opposed to the Kripos, who were similar to our CID and did the everyday policing (detectives, etc.). (Kriminal Polizei)
Originally posted by robh2k4@Jul 7 2004, 11:17 AM so they where basically people who did the dirty work for them? Rob Actually, not so simple. As with much else in Nazi Germany, you find empire building, overlapping and competing authority and a deal of confusion over who was responsible for what. Plus, in addition to being Reichfuhrer SS, Himmler was also Head of German Police, so it all came under his control. Top ranking SS officers were appointed to regional commands, including occupied territories, as Higher SS and Police Leaders. From 1943 onwards, there was a degree of merging of the Kripo and Gestapo into the SS. All the police organisations in Nazi Germany got involved in the "dirty work" to a degree. For instance, Orpo (Ordnungspolizei = Order Police) units were heavily involved in the Holocaust in Poland and in the Einsatzgruppen which carried out mass shootings after the invasion of the Soviet Union. Later, some of these units were involved in anti-partisan operations and were even incorporated into Wehrmacht forces. All very interesting, of course, but getting off the special forces topic a bit.
As opposed to the Kripos, who were similar to our CID and did the everyday policing (detectives, etc.). (Kriminal Polizei) kripos is a term more normally associated with the "Block leaders" in the camps.
Originally posted by morse1001@Jul 7 2004, 02:31 PM As opposed to the Kripos, who were similar to our CID and did the everyday policing (detectives, etc.). (Kriminal Polizei) kripos is a term more normally associated with the "Block leaders" in the camps. I always thought that these were known as the Blockaltester. Maybe "Kripo" was a nick-name for them? The "German CID" are still ,to this day, known as Kripos. B.
I always thought that these were known as the Blockaltester. Maybe "Kripo" was a nick-name for them? the name used in the camps came about because so many of the blockleaders came from the "crimminals" in the camps.
Originally posted by morse1001@Jul 7 2004, 07:31 PM kripos is a term more normally associated with the "Block leaders" in the camps. You are confusing this with Kapos.
