I would like to know where and what kind of training soldiers in the 1st and 6th Airlanding Brigades received? Would they have trained in Hotspurs, Horsas or possilbe even Wacos? I believe I read that three flights in Glider allowed them to wear the lightbulb glider patch on thier tunic, is that true? Would it have entailed alot of Physical training to actually get a ride in a Glider? How about all the loading and securing of extra equipment into the glider, or was that done like the U.S. forces where a Air Force/Army Air corp loadmaster does alot of the work? Or was each pilot in The Glider Reg. responsible for his Glider? Looking for what most common units did to become quilified. Thanks teletypeman
Hello there, I'ved edited the thread title to ''Glider training '' from your User Name.. Hope you get some replies now.
Here is a US Training Programme - will see if there is a UK one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/72643502/WWII-Glider-Pilot-Training-Program
possibly not much help to you but interesting JUST ORDINARY MEN. HQ Troop, 1st Airborne Reconnaissance Squadron, 1st British Airborne Division (WW2) - Gliders and Aircraft JUST ORDINARY MEN. HQ Troop, 1st Airborne Reconnaissance Squadron, 1st British Airborne Division (WW2) - Ringway & Tatton Pk Horsa Glider | ParaData
The Light Bulb patch was for parachute trained personnel who were serving in non-parachute units. You are thinking of the glider qualification badge.
... On 26th September 1941 the War Office and the Air Ministry agreed that Glider Pilots should conform to the educational, mental and physical standards for RAF aircrew. They were to be selected from volunteers by a joint RAF/Army selection panel and undergo the aircrew medical examination. They would then undertake a 12 week course learning to fly light powered aircraft at an Elementary Flying Training School (EFTS) followed by a course at a Glider Training School (GTS) for another 12 weeks where they would learn to fly the Hotspur glider. They would then move on to a Glider Operational Training Unit (GOTU), where they would learn to fly tactically. Eventually they would train on the Horsa glider. In addition to being able to fly, the Army insisted that every Glider Pilot should be trained to fight on the ground as a 'Total Soldier' ... The above was written by Lt. Col. Ingram Murray. The article is called "Nothing is Impossible" - The Nursery of the Glider Pilot Regiment, and can be found in the IV edition of Bugle and Sabre magazine. This 20 double paged article together with photographs covers not only the birth of the Glider Pilot Regiment but training, qualifications, gliders and operations together with Tug aircraft. The publishers are Black Dwarf Lightmoor Publications Ltd. Tel. 01993-773927. Well worth a read, but I feel certain other GPR enthusiasts will be along shortly to help with your enquiry. Lindsay
The winged parachute badge could be worn by anyone regardless of unit - if they completed P Company. Those (in my time) who completed the parachute training without the P company element wore this:
Hmmm, I think 'Teletypeman' is actually asking about the Airlanding units rather than the pilots themselves? I would advise reading such books as 'When Dragons Flew' (1st Border) along with the many other books written regarding South Staffs, KOSB, 12th Devons etc, etc... their are several titles dealing with the Airlanding units and their glider training. I can provide a list of titles if you wish. Matt
To Owen Thanks for correcting a newbee's mistake. I intended to name it Glider Soldiers Training. To Matt I would appreciate a list of books like that. To all the other Gents who replied to the post Thanks. I really want to know if the British Army had a set Qualification course/Standards for glider soldiers (not Pilots) in WW2? Or did training vary in the battalions in each Brigade?
To Owen Thanks for correcting a newbee's mistake. I intended to name it Glider Soldiers Training. Sorted .
To Owen Thanks for correcting a newbee's mistake. I intended to name it Glider Soldiers Training. To Matt I would appreciate a list of books like that. To all the other Gents who replied to the post Thanks. I really want to know if the British Army had a set Qualification course/Standards for glider soldiers (not Pilots) in WW2? Or did training vary in the battalions in each Brigade? Teletypeman The basic training for an Airlanding soldier was to enable them to attain a high standard of fitness - the intention being that they "Would be able to march 60 miles in 72 hours and be able to fight". My Father was in the South Staffordshire Regiment and spoke of the long forced marches across Salisbury Plain or the Yorkshire Moors carrying their personal kit and pulling the Platoon Handcart loaded with their stores and ammunition. He said that if the wheel fell off during the march they had to devise a way to carry it. I have a copy of a February 1942 training syllabus which includes the following standards for Physical Fitness (All in FSMO (Field Service Marching Order) unless otherwise stated: Level C: i) 2 miles across country and finish in 18/20 minutes ii) Forced march of 5 miles in 1 hour followed by 12" group rifle rested iii) carry man approx own weight 200 yds in 3 minutes iv) scale incline height 12 ft with aid of rope v) traverse a 20 foot span of horizontal rope and come down on rope vi) Scale 6 ft high wall (Respirator short slung) vii) Run 200 yds in 1 1/2 minutes, score 2 hits out of 5 at Fig 4A in 5 exposures - 5 secs each at finish - 1st exposure at 2 minutes viii) Jump ditch 7ft across landing on both feet B: As above standards being:- i) Finish in 14/16 minutes ii) 7 1/2 miles in 1 1/2 hours followed by 8" group, rifle rested iii) 2 1/2 minutes iv) Vertical height v) As above vi) As above vii) As above - 3 hits out of 5 viii) 8 ft ditch A: As above standards being:- i) Finish in 12 minutes ii) 10 miles in 2 hours - 8" group, rifle rested iii) 2 minutes iv) As for B v and vi) As for B - Re-test NOT required vii) 200 yds - 1 1/2 minutes otherwise as for B viii) 8 1/2 ft ditch John
For a personal account of training in 1st Airlanding Reconnaissance Squadron from April to July 1942 (from letters) see http://www.chotiedarling.co.uk/ - it's done as a blog so you have to read backwards! Also contains information form the 1st Airlanding Squadron's war diary which can be viewed at the National Archives, Kew - ref.WO 166/6955 (need to book appointment and do a bit of online training as a Reader). Thanks very much for your info John - have linked to this from my website http://http://www.chotiedarling.co.uk/my-blog/2012/04/joining-brownings-boys.html Hope that's OK... Chotie's Daughter
Thanks John and Chotie's Daughter. This is the kind of info I am searching for. It sounds like the kind of training I did in the U.S. for the one infantry division I was assigned to. We carried all our gear in a large ruck, and walked everywhere we went. Alot of confidence building, shooting and running. I read somewhere that some of the men in the airlanding Bdrs trained in Waco gliders? Anyone care to comment? Have seen many pictures at the IWM site of training in Hotspurs. And what was the standard disperal patern for the soldiers after landing and exiting the gliders?Many Thanks Ttyman
Ttyman The South Staffordshire and the Border Regiment undertook the invasion of Sicily on the 9/10th July 1943 in 136 Waco Gliders and 8 Horsa Gliders. This was because the Wacos were the only gliders available in any numbers to the Allied troops in North Africa at the time. The Glider Pilots had to undertake a very rapid conversion course learn to to fly them. It was apparently a very different type of glider to fly, the 8 Horsas available were used for the pinpoint landings required for the coup de main parties landing at the Primosole Bridge. Somewhere I've got some diagrams of defensive positions to be taken up on exiting the Hotspur glider - I'll see if I can dig these out. John
John I know you are prepping/packing for your Arnhem trip, quickly to two things. Did you ever come across the diagram for the glider troop dispersal after exiting their gliders? I would also like to know when you complete redoing The Hollard Patch. I would like a copy. I also would like to PM you to ask some personal questions. Ttyman
Ttyman Attached are the earliest plans that I have come across for disposition of troops on leaving a glider. These are dated March 1942 and would relate to the Hotspur glider. John
May I add this? There is a good account in the book Off at Last about the 7th KOSB in WW2 of one of the CSM's marching the men in to see the doctor and when halted in front of his desk he either did a thumbs up or down...in his way he got rid of men he felt unsuitable.....there are also comments in the war diary of men being posted away from 181 AFA RAMC as being unsuitable for airborne forces when it converted to an airlanding one.....
John Thanks for finding the info and diagram. One could surmise that it would be much the same from a Horsa. I really do not know about the U.S. glider soldiers, but I have read a little about Chindits. I have never read of them doing anything like this. I have read that the Oxf and Bucks did it during training and in Action. And it would follow suit in the units in both Airlanding Brigades in the British Airborne Divisions. Wish some vets could comment on this. Once again thanks for all the info. Great Stuff! Ttyman
