Grandfathers War Records - Help Please?

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by coldixon, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Hi there
    Great forum… was wondering if you guys good help me?
    I recently got hold of my grandfather’s war records and have deciphered most of it, but I would very much like to find out more and wondered if you guys could help answer a few questions for me? I’d be very grateful. First his particulars….. He was a Driver in the RASC, involved mostly with the 51st Highland Division
    1. RASC BEF. (no1 GHQ Arty Coy) France – 24/10/39 until 23/06/40.
    2. 51st Highland Division Ammunition Company MEF (RASC 458 coy Inf Troops Division) (Egypt et al) 18/06/42 until 27/08/43.
    3. MEF to BNAF (RASC 458 coy Inf Troops Division) 28/08/43 until 25/11/43
    - Medals…. North African 8th Army Clasp, Italy Star, France/Germany Star & 39/45 war medal.

    - He was also mentioned in despatches 6th April 1944 for a ‘gallant act in the middle east’.

    Q. In regard to his first stint overseas in the BEF… I have searched for info on the no1 GHQ arty coy RASC but have found nothing so far. Was this a company in itself? Or was it attached to another company? The dates suggest he was evacuated perhaps as part of operation aerial somewhere on the west coast of France rather than Dunkirk? Can anyone shed any light on this? (My mother is called Valerie and the Chinese whisper passed down in my family is that she was named after St.Valery which my grandad was rumoured to have escaped from… Did anyone of the 51st HD actually escape from St Valery?)

    Q. I have read snippets on this forum that some people have access to National Archive diaries. Does anyone know if there are any diaries on any of the above divisions/companies in which he served that may be of interest?

    Q. I have my granddads despatches certificate but don’t know why he got it… what was the gallant act he did to get this? Does anyone have any knowledge of how I might go about finding this out? Are there records of these things? I have the certificate and London Gazette pages but they don’t give any specifics.

    Thank you in advance for anyone who takes the time to read this. I would very much like to learn more and pass down to my own kids about what their great granddad did all those years ago.

    Thanks
    Colin
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Colin,

    Firstly welcome to the forum. In addition to the info posted above, perhaps his name and service number would be beneficial

    TD
     
  3. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Philip Andrew Tait ...... T/106458

    :)
     
  4. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

  5. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Yes thats the one. Difficult to find as its catalogued under the wrong date. Ive had that for a while. But wondered if there was any way of finding out what it was for exactly. :). P.S. Took me ages to find that! You found it in 5 mins haha.
     
  6. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum, Colin.

    I don't believe that no 1 GHQ Arty Coy, RASC, had much if anything to do with the 51st (Highland) Division. It stands for '1 General Headquarters Artillery Company, Royal Army Service Corps' and would probably have worked on the logistics and supply of the Heavy/Super Heavy Artillery attached to GHQ. The latter was situated at Arras for the most part, but not after circa 20 May 1940.

    I believe 1 GHQ Artillery Coy, RASC, was actually '13 Coy, RASC'.

    That said, it looks like your grandfather did evacuate from France further west than Dunkirk. He was in France for circa 3 weeks after the Dunkirk episode.

    His service then appears to be attached to the much reconstituted 51st (Highland) Division; North Africa (June 1942 to June 1943), Sicily (July to August 1943) and then back to North Africa (September to November 1943). Your analysis does not say what happened after that, but I note he has the France/Germany Star - so assume back to the UK (December 1943 to May 1944) and then NW Europe (June 1944 for the duration).

    If he stayed with the 458 Coy RASC, 51st (Highland) Division; the latter landed in Normandy on 7 June 1944.

    For War Diaries, look up any message from Andy (handle 'Drew5233) or Lee (PsyWar.org) both of whom offer a copying service at reasonable prices. They have prominent links to their copying service on all their messages...

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  7. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Thats great info Steve... Yes you are correct, he remained with the 458 and was posted in NWE from 15/06/44 until 28/10/45..... Thanks for telling me what NWE stood for btw! That one had me stumped!....

    Just had the thought that if he went back to france in June 44 perhaps then he only went to st valery in september 1944 with the 51st... Perhaps he never went there previous to that. My mother valerie was born in september 1944, so maybe she was named from him being there during the month of her birth?

    Really appreciate the info Steve.... Wondered where you found the reference tho to the no1 GHQ being part of the 13 coy RASC? That would def help me discover more if it was the case?

    Thanks again
     
  8. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Colin,

    Have a look at: http://www.orbat.com/site/history/historical/uk/expeditionaryforce1940.html and 15 lines in.

    I wonder how may children of 51st (Highland) Division and my lot, 50th (Northumbrian) Division, were born in later August/September 1944? 50 Div had been absent overseas and fighting - same places as 51 Div - for just over 2 years and 51 Div for 18 months...

    Your suggestion about the Valerie/St Valery connection could well be right. More likely if your grandfather was Scots, given what happened in 1940. Tait and Dixon; definitely Scottish names, but I went to school in Northumberland with quite a few...

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  9. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Ha yes, my grandfather was granted 10 days leave in jan 44 back to the UK.

    Thanks for the link, yes, my quest is now to find out about 13 coy..... The dates say he left france on the 23rd june 40..... There is a list of ships that sailed from western france operation aerial that i found on an earlier post and the only ships that left on the 23rd were from st.jean de luz, la verdon and alderney.... So I presume his regt got out on one of the first two ports, maybe further research may link the 13coy to one of these ports but I get the feeling I wont find out much more on this.... It all seems a bit chaotic in this timeframe...

    P.s. My grandfather was from ashington northumberland. :)
     
  10. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Colin,

    I bet he called your mother 'Bonny Lass'...

    A lot of good footballers from Ashington: Jackie Milburn, Bobby Charlton, Jack Charlton... My Uncle Jackie, who was badly wounded in NW Europe, taught the latter, in Ashington.

    You may find that your dad got out of France by himself or with a few mates, rather than marching away with his regiment; albeit he could well have been on one of the ships you mention. I'd try the applicable War Diary. It may not give you the detail you are after but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I was able to find out how my dad's oldest brother was killed on 31 May 1940 at Bray Dunes, as it was mostly in the applicable War Diary.

    Good luck with your search.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  11. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Much appreciated Steve. Searching through some of Drews excel lists for the most appropriate diaries now.

    P.S. Yes he was the definitive member of the working mens clerbs :)
     
  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    There is a BEF war diary for the above unit. You are correct Steve, it was known as 13 Company. Unfortunately though the units war diary ends in April 1940 before the Germans invaded Holland and Belgium.
     
  13. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Since you have posted Drew the most natural next 2 questions to ask.....
    Q. Are there any diaries with info on the 458 rasc in north africa and sicily?
    Q. Would there be a record exists of my grandfathers despatches request whilst he was in the 458? Bit of a long shot tho, hoping to find out why he was mentioned in despatches exactly.

    Either way thank you in advance for taking the time. :)
     
  14. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Andy,

    Assuming there is one, when does the next 13 Coy one start? The adjutant could very well have done an roll/analysis of personnel killed, wounded, missing, etc., i.e. a starting position for the reformed Coy. Missing men turning up later, could well get a specific mention.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  15. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Thanks Again Steve... Yes would love to find out anything! :)
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I hate looking for RASC units :lol:

    These are the 458 Coy RASC files

    WO 169/11907 458 Company 1943 Mar.- Oct.
    WO 166/13117 458 Company 1943 Nov., Dec.
    WO 171/2462 458 Company 1944 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 171/6281 458 Company 1945 Jan.-Dec.
    WO 171/9815 458 Company 1946 Jan., Feb.

    169 is Mediterranean and it looks like they returned to the UK at the end of 43 before deploying to NW Europe in 1944 for the rest of the war,.

    I'll do some digging on the Post BEF bit.
     
  17. coldixon

    coldixon Member

    Thats Great Andy. Could you PM me with the prices of those diaries please? v interested.

    Did you say you were doing some digging on the 13 coy? after April 1940? Also interested in those diaries :)
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I will but I have a tendency to forget things of late-If I don't update in 7 days drop me a message to remind me.

    A
     

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