Great Grandad Prisoner of War in Japan

Emma well done!

The reason I think you have been so successful on this thread is due to yourself. You have been so determined, enthusiastic and grateful towards everyone who has helped you, it became infectious to try and get towards the story end. You have responded to all suggestions and got more and more information, with the attitude of leaving no stone unturned.

There is a clear message in this thread to other new posters, who sometimes post and don’t even return to acknowledge a reply.

The more you give the more you get.

Your enthusiasm has been so high I am half expecting you to ask when the next flight to Tokyo leaves, or is that another thread.

 

Haha thanks, I’ve really enjoyed looking into everything, my Nan can’t believe how much I’ve found out. She knew parts from her Step Dad but she didn’t get on that well with him so only knew snippets.
She was so chuffed with all the bits of paperwork I took over today/info on the regiment etc. And just finding out stuff for myself has been nice and made me feel like I have more of a connection to him now even though I never met him. I don’t know why it took me so long to look at all this!

I’m more determined than ever to see if these dog tags can be found and me and my Mum were saying last night we’d like to go to Japan soon so you’re not far wrong! I’m going to see if I can contact this Osaka castle and see if they know anything.

I’ve been lucky that there’s been a lot of information out there about him, I know some won’t be so lucky at finding out information on loved ones.

Will keep you updated on any new findings! And I will add his picture this evening to the images section on here.

Emma

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid

TD

 

I have a feeling you’re right!

On to the dog tags now! Been emailing around and started a new thread on here. What an amazing thing to find and to have, something he would have carried.
Really hope I can find them.

 

Me again. I’ve got the membership on ancestry.com and I was having a look to find his death registered on there to potentially order a death certificate. Only problem is I can’t see to find it on there.
There’s a couple of records which are close but still not the same. He was born in 1905 according to all the war records (although his birth certificate online shows 1906 which is the year my Nan thought it was)
And he died in 1943 so which of these might it be... in thinking more likely the 2nd one as could the death have been registered later due to the circumstances but how would I know for sure I’m ordering the right certificate lol..

 

Emma

He wont have a death certificate as we know them, as he died on active service

UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
Name: William Lambourne
Given Initials: W E
Rank: Gunner
Death Date: 8 Jul 1943
Number: 1519899
Birth Place: Oxford
Residence: Oxford
Branch at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
Theatre of War: Netherlands East Indies
Regiment at Death: Royal Artillery
Branch at Death: Royal Artillery

I believe you can supply them with the CWGC details
UK, Commonwealth War Graves, 1914-1921 and 1939-1947
Name: William Ernest Lambourne
Age: 37
Birth Date: abt 1906
Death Date: 8 Jul 1943
Cemetery: Yokohama British Commonwealth War Cemetery
Burial Country: Japan
Father: William Thomas Lambourne
Mother: Mary Lambourne
Regimental Number: 1519899
Region or Memorial: Japan


The main reason they require a death cert is to ensure that the persons records being requested had died at least 25 years before the request, its all to do with privacy, data rules bla bla bla


England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Ernest Lambourne
Registration Year: 1906
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Witney
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Oxfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 1126

Remeber that these records only show the quarter of the year and the quarter in which they were registered. It is possible to be born for example in Dec 1905 but not have the birth registered until Jan 1906

TD

added
you can always ring them and confirm, they are very helpful

 

Ah ok I see.

I’m not sure I even need it as one of the forms says only if they have died since outside of service.

But I’ll send that document incase. I did try call them but had no answer so will try again tomorrow.

He was born in August so don’t think the quarter rule would apply in this instance. It is strange how they are different.

Thanks

 

If you do want Birth and Marriage Certs etc (not Death Cert as that would be hard to trace if it ever was created) remember to order direct from the Registration Services - Ordering Service website and not from a similar sounding scraper website that simply adds on a chunk of money and then orders from the official website! Should be about £6 and may contain his and his wife's signatures. Just another connection....
You'll need to quote the Volume and Page number, as in the example posted above for his Birth Registration by TD.

Now, you should be warned (again!) that this is addictive and I just wonder if there was a reason for the "Ernest" part of his name?
The reason I ask is that there was a WW1 Lambourne casualty buried in Winchester....
LAMBOURNE, ERNEST. Rifleman. Service Number S/4943. Died 04/08/1916. Aged 40
Depot. Rifle Brigade. Son of William and Caroline Lambourne, of Cumnor, Oxford.
Buried at WINCHESTER (WEST HILL) OLD CEMETERY
Cemetery/memorial reference: 16304.
The headstone shows a reference to a Mr W J Lambourne, of Cumnor, Berks? near Oxford, although it appears no inscription was added.
There are 4 Rifle Brigade burials all in a few months at the Rifle Brigade depot in Winchester, and as this Ernest was 40 it sounds as if he might have been an old soldier (Boer War?) so a bit too old for front line service, but good enough to help lick the youngsters into shape. Nonetheless 4 deaths on 22 and 27th July and 4th and 27th August (aged 17) might suggest a link - but I don't know what....
Cumnor isn't that far from the St Ebbe address for your ggfather, so thought it worth raising.... now you've got the bug!

 

Thanks, I actually managed to find their marriage certificate in ancestory, it was already posted on there for free so got that with his signature etc which my Nan didn’t have
The Birth certificate would also be a nice one so I’ll look at the link for ordering that.
I’m not sure on the Ernest, I know his Dad was William which is where the first name is from. I’ll have to ask my Nan if Ernest is from someone as that could definitely be a link! Thanks for looking into that. I’m thinking I might start up a family tree on this ancestory, there’s one for my Dads side of the family my uncles been working on but my Mums side (Williams side) there isn’t anything really so would be nice to do for my Mum and Nan.

 

Here is their marriage certificate, it is nice to see their writing

 

I can see why people do this research stuff as a full time thing! It is very addictive. I’ve been up past 12 the last few nights looking at stuff, with a 5 and 3 year old and working 4 days a week tho i am particularly tired at the moment

 

This journey is not a sprint - its a shortish marathon, that how you need to look at it.

TD

 

Yeah very true which is why I wish I’d started before. My Nans nearly 83 and although she’s well this is why I feel like I want to get more done sooner I think. If I can get his records and a cross put on his grave for her I think I’d feel happy with that. Finding the dog tags would be incredible but probably something I’ll need to be patient with as think that’ll be a tough one.

 

I will second what Owen has said above. I have several death certificates for POW's who perished inside Rangoon Jail. These were indexed as Army Overseas Deaths Other Ranks 1939-48. There is unlikely to be much information written on these certificates, in this case probably a generalised statement such as 'Died in Japanese Hands.'

See below for an example, my grandfather's certificate:

 

I just can’t seem to find what one would be his, this is what comes up for his name. The closest is the one in 1943 but has the middle name as Thomas which is incorrect although strangely that was the name of his Dad (although haven’t a clue when he died)

 

For what it's worth middle (and first) names can be a bit variable I've found, in my own family at least. Several of my uncles had the middle name Seymour - a vain attempt to toady up to an imagined, wealthy, relative - which sometimes shows up and sometimes doesn't in their various records. In addition, with an impressive contempt of officialdom, my grandmother seemed periodically to reinvent her name... and date of birth... and father's occupation...

Like others who've commented, I've been impressed with this thread which has become something of an addictive daily read: really good work from Emma and everyone involved. On to the dog-tags!

Pat.

 

Yea I think people switching their names around seemed to be a thing back then, my husbands got some aunts and uncles who have their middle names as their first names!

Thanks Pat, I’ve emailed the Japanese embassy in London and the British Embassy in Japan so will see if they come back with anything. I don’t get how this Japanese journalist would contact a British website to say she’d found them and then the story ends and no1 appears to know anymore. I’m worried if I do find them how easy it will be actually then claiming them tho!

I have another thread regarding these so will keep everyone updated if anything interesting happens

 

Owen I did search the national archives as it lets you search for military on there and it didn’t have anything. Couldn’t see anything on the gov site tho.. will have another look