Hello all, need a bit of help

Discussion in 'User Introductions' started by Geoff Rogers, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    If its no problem to you then here on the forum so that other members can see it and as has happened before when others have missed a detail then other eyes have picked it up

    As yet I cant find on Ancestry a marriage for William Rogers & Betsy Dukes so personally I would like to see what the cert says that you have in your possession

    Thanks
    TD
     
  2. Geoff Rogers

    Geoff Rogers Active Member

    Yeh no problem I’ll put a picture up in a bit. Just talking to my mother, my father’s father was from Gower way, possibly Tenby so he (William George Rogers) was probably born down that way somewhere. Pic coming - cheers Geoff
     
  3. Geoff Rogers

    Geoff Rogers Active Member

    Docs
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Pat Atkins

    Pat Atkins Well-Known Member

    A birth year of 1897 would certainly put him firmly in the frame for service in the First War (he'd have been 19, and thus eligible for overseas service, in 1916). However, though a very cursory shufti at Ancestry's WW1 medal rolls records brings up a considerable number of hits for WG Rogers/William G Rogers, I can't currently see anything which might identify our man's records. No immediately obvious sign of a service record extant either. This isn't unusual, of course, at this stage of research. A look at WW1 records on FMP might turn something up perhaps.

    Cheers, Pat.
     
  5. Geoff Rogers

    Geoff Rogers Active Member

    Cheers Pat, I’ll have a look at FMP, think I’m in for the long haul but would be amazing to find out what happened to him given that my father never could. I’ll have to report back! Cheers Geoff
     
  6. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    The closest I can find is a Swansea registered birth in 1899 FreeBMD District Info
    Not convinced that's him.

    Other than that only a 1905 birth in Gower.
     
  7. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    William George Rogers 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep Bridgend Glamorgan

    William George Rogers 1896 Jul-Aug-Sep Pontypridd Glamorgan

    William George Rogers 1896 Oct-Nov-Dec Bridgend Glamorgan

    William George Rogers 1899 Jan-Feb-Mar Swansea Glamorgan

    William George Rogers 1899 Jul-Aug-Sep Cardiff Glamorgan

    William Geprge Rogers born 1897 +/- 2 years Glamorgan

    TD
     
  8. Geoff Rogers

    Geoff Rogers Active Member

    Thank you both, looks like the same record in 1899 in Swansea, and my father spent most of his life there so it’s a good start. I've joined ancestry.co.uk so am starting a family tree, don't know if some site are better than others etc but I'll see if I can an find out anymore from paperwork my mother may have or online information hubs as you guys have indicated. I guess my only reservation is not knowing what the heck I'm doing once I've paid for a service that I don't know how to use! Lol but maybe that's part of the challenge. If you guys don't mind I'll update any findings and maybe you'll be able to see things I can't.

    Many thanks again

    Geoff
     
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  9. Geoff Rogers

    Geoff Rogers Active Member

    Just a quick thought, I don't know if the records you can see show the fathers name Thomas Rogers a Sailmaker?
     
  10. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Occupations will show up in the original census sheets you'll be able to access on Ancestry. Look at 1901 & 1911.

    Like Tricky Dicky, I also couldn't see that 1919 marriage at GRO. It's most odd.
     
  11. Geoff Rogers

    Geoff Rogers Active Member

    Hmmmm, the plot thickens! I'll be back! Cheers Geoff
     
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    The documents we can access will only have that sort of detail if the census returns

    TD
     
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  13. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Quickly read this thread and i know everyone was waiting for more info before commenting more..BUT :)

    One for I found earlier for consideration ? However since the new info was published its possibly not him but hes somebodies relative so rather than waste it ,just incase someone else Googles the name :)

    William George Rogers son of John Rogers and Ellen Elizabeth Rogers born 1897 in Woolwich Kent (1911 Census)

    Family lived at Little Acton Lodge near Wrexham,Denbighshire in 1911 (Wales Census) William George Rogers was not at `home` at this time his entry was made in error and crossed out the ammendment states he was a `Boy in the RFA (?? partially illegible) at the Training Brigade, Woolwich? (Navy)

    Served Navy throughout ww1 until 1927

    William George Rogers born 17 August 1897 Died Enfield 1972 aged 74.

    Issues;- I can find William George Rogers marriage in 1919 but not to Betsy Jukes? (Darrell)
    I can find Betsy Dukes marriage in 1919 but not to William George Rogers? (Stacey)

    .............................................................................................................................................................................................................

    BMD_B_1897_3_AZ_000507 birth.jpg 1LNDRG13_569_571-0130 1901 census born Woolich Kent.jpg wales1911.jpeg GBM_ADM188_692_0_0121 navy1.jpg ons_d19722az-1018 death.jpg

    Kyle
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  14. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Hmm, this is a rum one.

    No problem with Betsy's family:

    1911 Census: 30 Parker St, Bloxwich, Walsall
    Thomas Dukes 45 Collier, Banksman b.Birmingham
    Fanny Dukes 51
    Thomas Dukes 19
    Samuel Dukes 18
    William Dukes 17
    Joseph Dukes 13
    Alfred Dukes 11
    Frank Dukes 8
    Rosie Dukes 5
    Betsey Dukes 14

    But that marriage:

    Staffordshire Marriages: 1919
    DUKES Betsy
    STACEY William
    Cannock, St Luke

    Note; the SAME CHURCH as William George Rogers

    Then a BIG gap to the first and only child:

    Rogers Glyn Dukes Swansea Sep 1934

    William Stacey DID exist:

    First name(s) William
    Last name Stacey
    Age 18
    Birth year 1897
    Birth town Lichfield
    Birth county Staffordshire
    Birth country England
    Service number 60531
    Regiment Royal Army Medical Corps
    Year 1915
    Residence town Lichfield
    Residence county Staffordshire

    and, according to a family tree on Ancestry, he DID marry Betsy Dukes (though there is no info about her, apart from her birth and marriage, and there were no children). He died 1 Jan 1983 in Bournemouth.

    None of this helps, of course!
     
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  15. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Geoff, can you email the GRO with the wedding details you hold and ask them to compare information and ask them why all on line sources, suggests Betsy married a William Stanley in 1919 at Cannock.

    Has there been a name change for William or did the surname get transcribed wrongly when added on line? Something's not right here.

    It would be interesting to find out if there are any corrective entries made by the Registrar to the original register page.
     
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  16. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    I've emailed the Registrars at Staffordshire County Council.
     
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  17. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    Thanks Harkness, will be an interesting response.

    Looking back at Geoff's original certificates, Betsy's 1897 birth entry is a copy raised 10 November 1964. Issued for the purpose of National Insurance Act. Is this the year she passed?

    Glyn's birth cert is also a copy, raised 2 October 1948. For purpose of the Education Act. Wonder what school Glyn joined and what info might be available on his father William in the school registers/archives.

    Seems odd Betsy had to obtain copies of both. Maybe just unlucky and lost both originals.
     
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  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Offical sources show she married William Stacey in 1919

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
    Name: Betsy Dukes
    Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1919
    Registration district: Cannock
    Inferred County: Staffordshire
    Spouse: William Stacey
    Volume Number: 6b
    Page Number: 732
     
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  19. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    F57D599F-D886-4E94-90CF-24D06B4B9F0D.jpeg

    Something is odd here because if you look at the marriage certificate everywhere the surname Rogers appears then it seems to have been altered, as does Williams occupation (to bricklayer) and also Thomas Rogers occupation (to Sailmaker and Rigger) - all these specific areas relating to the Rogers surname and their occupations have been altered - in my opinion

    TD

    Added

    If you look at the Rogers in William Rogers then its clear to me different inks have been used, as there appear on the Betsy forename, and below that in the signature section - Rogers is in different inks and a complete mess
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  20. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    I agree TD. I thought the 'R' on Rodgers looks shakey to me.

    If you look closer at the Rogers at the bottom of the cert, below the small r, there's definitely the faint leg of another letter below it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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