Help clearing up a mystery - 6145000 Timothy Chasses SABELLA, 2/6 East Surrey: 04/12/1944, POW

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by Incredibledisc, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    I've been researching the names and addresses recorded in my great grandfather's YMCA logbook to help piece together his time as a POW. When I've been lucky enough to find surviving relatives I've been attempting to get in touch to find out more information. Recently I found the family of Timothy Chasses Sabella, a private in the East Surrey Regiment, POW number 1845. Sadly Tim died on 4th December 1944 probably at Stalag 344/8B Lamsdorf and the family are unsure what happened - Records apparently lists him as dying while POW but other accounts suggest he died if a disease going around the camp. The family had to get their MP and Michael Fallon to get the MOD to release service records which had some parts redacted which has left the family feeling there are unanswered questions. I wondered if anyone frequenting the POW forum might know additional information about his death?

    Timothy C. Sabella
    25 Charlwood Road, Putney, London

    Rank:Private
    Service No:6145000
    Date of Death:04/12/1944
    Age: 25
    Regiment/Service:East Surrey Regiment 2/6th Bn
    Grave Reference: S. E. 2.
    Cemetery:KRAKOW RAKOWICKI CEMETERY
    Additional Information:Son of Timothy Chasses Sabella and of Lily Mary Sabella, of Putney, London.

    image.jpeg
    Tim in 1940 before embarking for France

    image.png
    Tim(far left) with my great grandfather, John Conway standing next to him. Photo taken 1942 at Oflag XXI-B Schubin


    image.png
    Another photo from Oflag XXI-B, Tim is front row centre with my great grandfather behind him.
     
    4jonboy likes this.
  2. papiermache

    papiermache Well-Known Member

    There are many more photographs at the Imperial War Museum, some of them viewable online. All variations of the camp number and names should be entered, viz.: "8B" and "VIIIB" when searching. Will send you pm.
     
    Incredibledisc likes this.
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Maybe contact with the International Red Cross could produce more details??

    There is a private tree on Ancestry that may hold more

    TD
     
  4. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    As far as I know the Red Cross has suspended all research inquires pending them releasing the files online at some point this year. The private tree on Ancestry is one that the family put up - I've been in contact with them regarding what happened but they are as much in the dark as I am.
     
  5. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Googling shows the current family members and also
    www.lamsdorf.com/uploads/6/4/2/7/6427590/timothy_sabella_2.doc
    So, a PoW in 2/6 Bn East Surrey Reg't captured in the fall of Dunkirk and at Lamsdorf(?) in Dec 1944 when he died.

    Not sure why there was such a problem in obtaining his Service record or why there would be any need for any part to be redacted (horrid word, immediately smacks of CIA !)
    Is there nothing in it relating to the period when he was a PoW? Did he send any letters home, any comrades or other PoW's make contact after the War?
     
  6. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    You still got access to the papers? Look up Surrey Advertiser 23/11/40 and 28/7/45 (I just used search term Sabella in the advanced search field).
     
    Incredibledisc likes this.
  7. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Hi Kevin,

    From the emails I received from Gordon Davis-Day (Tim's great nephew) I am led to believe that he sent many letters home which the family still have. The one thing they mentioned was that some of his letters indicated that he had been upset that some things he had requested from home had never arrived and he apparently blamed the Red Cross for this. To be fair they never used the word redacted - that was me - the phrase they used was "covered up so we can't see what it says" which sounded like redaction to me. I said the same thing about the MOD and service records - I've not had any issue getting files from them but this family did. They also mentioned an RSM Read who was apparently in charge of Tim's block in the camp.
     
  8. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Cheers. Just discovered that as a teacher I get free access while I'm at work!
     
  9. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Sabella.jpg Hello,

    I've just dowloaded his concentration report from the CWGC website. He was brought into Krakow from Ciezyn (Teschen) - Stalag VIIIB. He is registered as 'died'.

    Regards,

    Vitellino
     
  10. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Thanks Vitellino,

    I looked at the CWGC site once Tim's family informed me that he had died while still in German hands. Confirms at least that he was definitely in Stalag VIIIB (Lamsdorf) when he died but sadly not the cause of death.
     
  11. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Got another message from Gordon. He says the Germans provided a death certificate giving the time of death as 17.15 and the location as the Teschen sick bay. Another soldier, William Brooks, who also wrote to the family apparently also died there two months later.
     
  12. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Probably this chap... image.png

    No record of him with CWGC - maybe I misinterpreted the email I got with regard to him dying.
     
  13. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Some more bits and pieces from Tim's family...

    "Mum and I had a look through the letters yesterday and Tim's war records, we discovered the reason there was death certificate was because one of the letters sent by Chaplin-Major John Hiddlestone and I quote "I can assure everything possible was done for him by the British Doctors and Orderlies and that he did not suffer any pain during his illness." So it maybe possible that it was something to do with the doctors, it states that it was meningitis that he died of, what we find interesting that none of the British records state this.

    According to a postcard from another pow a James L Roberts and Harry Ogden attended Tim's funeral both of which were friends of Tim's, mum also mentioned that were some more group photos that she believes I have not seen, she will bring them up to the house for me to see later in the week.

    We have started to list all the camps he stayed at not sure if this information will be of any use to you and we also discovered in 1939 that his regiment were attached to the 51st (Highland) Infantry Division as part of the British Expeditionary Force."
     
  14. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Got Tim’s POW cards from the NA recently. Seems like he was a naughty lad and was punished for not working and for trying to escape which may have contributed to his ill health later and contributed to his death I also see he was in E715 for some time which was the IG Farben plant at Monowitz next to the concentration camp there which was part of the Auschwitz system. 1723ADA3-E594-40E6-9879-30B44CF6E601.jpeg 49B62673-00C0-44E2-A35A-83B14305EBE8.jpeg 623679F6-1BD2-4B21-B450-0210B6E37D0A.jpeg A400BCCA-4A27-451E-ADF2-A7F592B9A8CC.jpeg DE96CC34-5691-4D2F-9DB4-7F5B6AC17932.jpeg 3C1A8066-0D5B-48B6-9D8C-23324E38741C.jpeg 776B230E-F27F-404F-B3EB-156DF00E3989.jpeg 427DDC80-AEA2-4F8D-8FF1-F26AAD4BDC49.jpeg 04C72771-FA0D-4FA7-8869-EB4089B4C60B.jpeg 455B7BF0-0621-42FB-8E1B-7CE211AA3F1F.jpeg
     
    Uncle Target and 4jonboy like this.
  15. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Turn the page

    Gunner Meredith from the 67thField Regt was in E715. (Captured Banana Ridge Tunisia 1943). From time to time I get phone calls from his son. Just spoke to him will let you know if he has anything that might help but it might be a week or two.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
    Incredibledisc likes this.
  16. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much. That would be very helpful. I think there is a book - probably Pen & Sword - out there as well.
     
  17. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Turn the page

    There are a few websites regarding E715 here is one which I found quite quickly. When I get time I might find a few others.

    Wollheim Memorial

    NA also have records: Auschwitz Concentration Camp, Work Camp E715, Poland: killing and ill-treatment of... | The National Archives

    There was a quite famous story of a British soldier who went into the concentration camp to find out what the Germans were doing. its on line somewhere.
    My colleague and myself spent time researching this a few years ago.
    I believe Gnr Meredith was marched away and eventually freed by the Russians but lets wait until we see what his son says.

    Afraid I am tied up with other things at the moment but we will see what we can come up with.

    Edit: I think this is the soldier; Arthur Dodd (British Army soldier) - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2022
    4jonboy and Incredibledisc like this.
  18. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Turn the page

    Incredibledisc likes this.
  19. Incredibledisc

    Incredibledisc Well-Known Member

    Fascinating stuff - cheers for the links.
     
  20. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Turn the page

    Found this online last night: Ron Redman

    Surprising what turns up if you keep looking, it seems that once you get the search algorithms going they become more efficient.

    My training taught me that persistence is the key to success.
    So why aren't I a millionaire!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
    Incredibledisc likes this.

Share This Page