Help find if this person served

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by sri_130, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    Struggling to find if this person served. He was a year younger than his brother who did & was also a labourer.

    William Mattison
    Born Leeds, 10th September 1910.
    On the 1939 census as a labourer, married to Margaret Wilson/Hewitt, with two sons.

    Searched Ancestry, FMP & Forces war records.

    I can't see how he would have been exempt.
     
  2. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    There`s lot`s of W Mattisons listed on findmypast but its only guesswork trying to find if they are `your` William Mattison . Theres even a William Mattison born 1910 in the casualty lists but my subscription has lapsed so I cannot tell you anything else ?

    I think the only way you can find out will be to supply the Mod with his, date of birth , name and proof of death (Certificate) and apply for service records?

    All I can suggest really

    Good Luck

    Kyle
     
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  3. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    I notice in the instructions column of his 1939 Register entry there is this extra comment which I read as "engineers maintenance & refrac......, with possibly wording above obscured by the redaction of the entry above. Maybe this is to do with how his occupation or employer is related to war work etc. Often this column is used to record extra duties such as ARP, special constabulary etc.

    Can anyone decipher this further ?

    Screen Shot 2020-12-30 at 13.51.02.png
     
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  4. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    Thanks for the input.
    I noticed that element in the census, but thought it was for the entry above. Engineering of some sort, could have made him exempt though. But he is listed as a labourer, like his brother was, who ended up in artillery.

    I've been through all entries on FMP, the closest war related one was an seaman, but looks to have been from the states.
     
  5. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    My grandfather, a plumber in his thirties married with 3 children was never called up & instead worked repairing bomb damage under control of the local council & served in home guard.
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
    Name: William Mattison
    Registration Year: 1910
    Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
    Registration District: Leeds
    Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
    Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
    Volume: 9b
    Page: 286

    Seems his father (William) was in the military
    UK, British Army World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
    Name: William Mattison Mattison
    Birth Date: 10 Sep 1910
    Birth Place: Leeds
    Document Year: 1914
    Relationship to Soldier: Child
    Form Title: Military History Sheet
    Other Records:
    Family Members:
    Name Relation to Soldier
    William Mattison Self (Head)
    Maud Mervin Spouse
    John Mattison Mattison Child
    William Mattison Mattison Child
    Alfred Mattison Mattison Child


    England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
    Name: William Mattison
    Death Age: 74
    Birth Date: 10 Sep 1910
    Registration Date: Jan 1985
    Registration District: Leeds
    Inferred County: West Yorkshire
    Volume: 5
    Page: 111


    TD
     
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  7. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    He was indeed. He bought his way out, in the late 1890's then was conscripted in his late 20's.
    Shot and wounded in Gallipoli (right thigh) then was shot in the same leg in France! He was discharged before the end of the war.

    His son though (well one of them) I just can't seem to find if he served or not. I'll likely just take a punt and see if they can find it base on the DOB.
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Its his death certificate they ask for

    TD
     
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  9. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Re Post No3 above: engineer maintenance and refrac, Refractory Engineer is a qualification in the Foundry Industry many joined the Institute of Refractory Engineers not so much an academic as a practical qualification. Refractory is the heat resistant lining in a furnace these can be brick or in more modern induction furnaces a compacted sintered material. Such materials as silica in a steel melting furnace which when above 1000deg C becomes glazed sealing the furnace wall.
    He would probably be exempt or at least need his employers permission to join up.
     
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  10. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    Check out where they lived... Foundry at the rear and one over the road! If that entry is for him, it would make sense. Just cant see past the general labourer bit.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Ref post 4 above: Census forms used generic terms for workers if anyone was not in a recognised trade or profession they were inevitably listed as a Labourer i.e. a worker as opposed to an employer.
    The enumerators were often local school teachers who had no idea of industrial processes a maintenance worker, even a tradesman, would just be a worker termed as a labourer.
    My family were yeoman famers but most entries described them as agricultural labourers because they didnt own the farm but leased it from the local gentry who were termed as landowners or farmers.

    Hope this helps to understand the fact that he was probably a maintenance man in line with a bricklayer by trade but specialising in building and maintaining furnaces as opposed to operating them.
    This was a major concern to the Army during WW1 and WW2 as there was a shortage of fit men from industrial areas due to chest complaints from pollution in foundries etc this extended to men with foundry skills being needed to keep the equipment running for the new less experienced workers to operate.
    Many senior Generals had a strong dislike of Territorial Regiments as they came from backgrounds that often prevented them being available for immediate release, due to the requirements of industries that made the weapons of war.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
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  12. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    I'll revisit the research and see if further clues can confirm. There is a relative who grew up with one of his sons, which might have some idea.

    Thanks for the help
     
  13. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    His marriage certificate or birth certs of his children may confirm a more detailed occupation.
     
  14. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    Looking at this with my glasses on....
    You're right about the occupation, likely keeping him out of the Army. The notes section, is for his 'line' I believe.

    The 1939 census 'status' column has him listed as M/A. M= Married, but there is no key for A! So not sure what that is.
     
  15. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    I've never seen this before & Mr Google can't tell me so I have messaged ancestry to see if they know. My best guess would be "marriage annuled" if this fits in with the family circumstances. Maybe this enumerator has been more specific than others & used their own sub code.

    He may also be described as a labourer on the 1939 Register to entitle him to extra rations. This was available to heavy labourers, although this is usually written up as heavy labourer. If I was the enumerator I would count building & maintaining furnaces as heavy work.
     
  16. travers1940

    travers1940 Well-Known Member

    The ancestry help desk have replied & say it is "marriage annulled".
     
  17. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    Well I say.
    Controversy!

    Many thanks for finding that out. I shall see what else I can find on this individual.
     
  18. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    It's a pity that the occupation description was not more detailed. Refractory work, in essence, laying of refractory bricks was a skill required on the maintenance of boilers, particularly on power station boilers of that era.

    At the time Leeds had two power stations...Whitehall Road whose chain grate boilers had substantial refractory brickwork in their combustion chambers. Refractory work was common in the maintenance of the power chain grate boilers. The other station was at Kirkstall but was fired by pulverised fuel which had much lower refractory requirements.

    Digressing....... Whitehall Road Power Station was the Leeds City Corporation Electricity Department HQ. In the offices was a large memorial plaque dedicated with the names of the electricity department workers who had fallen in both wars. The station was demolished many years ago after being a training centre. Possibly the memorial plaque was saved from the scrapyard.
     
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  19. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Please excuse a further digression or relocate this posting.
    In the Pacific in WW2 the American Navy were reduced to the Aircraft Carriers that escaped the Pearl Harbor attack.
    One or more were due to return for their boilers to be relined with replacement refractory profiles and bricks.
    The solution was to use a monolithic refractory material basically in laymans terms, an uncooked ceramic clay which was rammed into place then slowly raised to temperature.
    This saved the Carriers returning to port for boiler repairs and caused the Japanese much surprise when they were still in action being expected to return to port.
    Monolithic refractory became the norm post war in boilers and furnaces due to its time saving ease of installation.
    Source: Course while working for Morgan Refractories who once owned Battersea Power Station.
     
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