Help identifying cloth patch

Can anyone identify the shoulder patch of my Great Grandfather?

I've got his service records from when he was an enlisted man (1922-1942) and also from when he was in the Pakistan army (1947-58) I've got a gap from between 1942-1947 and i'm trying to work out what he was doing during the second world war.

There's no mention of what unit he was in from 1938-42 although I know that he was RASC and then RIASC. He later went into the Indian electrical mechanical engineers and finally Pakistan EME.

His medals include the North Africa and Italy star which narrows it down to 8th or 10th Indian division. This photo was taken around 1945.

It doesn't quite look like the 10th Division patch...

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Rich

 

Rich
NO question = 10th Indian div part of the trio of Indian divs in 8th Army - 4th - 8th and 10th served inthe desert from early on - after Beda Fomm - 4th to Ethiopia - then Syria to join the other two - back to the desert - then Italy - 4th at Cassino for two battles - 8th into Liri Valley - 10th in reserve....

camped with 10th at Udine - scratched my way into Austria when MO ran out of Gentian Violet - said a few words
Cheers

 

Hi Tom,

Thanks for such a quick reply.

It's funny you mention Monte Cassino, the family 'story' is that he was in Iraq and at Monte Cassino.

I'd love to find his service records relating to his time as a 'Indian' officer. I'm assuming that they're MIA and trying to put his service history together myself.

 

Rich -
There is an excellent account of the Indian Divisions on Wiki - can't think of the title but deals mainly with the Italian campaign - but all three were also in Syria / Iraq
dealing with the French in 1942- Owen I think has a copy of the Italy thingi....all three made a wonderful contribution to victory
Cheers

 

I think Tom's thinking of The Tiger Triumphs on our 'Fine Sites' list - worth a look.

 

Rich -
memory catching up with me - google for -
" The Tiger Triumphs " the stick your chest out as it is a marvellous read
Cheers

 

To all that offered help and advice, thank you.

I now realise that it is the 10th Indian patch, I thought it was a different one as the lines appeared to be wavy rather than straight - then realised that must be the way his shirt was at the time the photo was taken!

Does anyone know of some where I could pick up a 10th Indian division patch? I've had a good Google search but found nothing....

Thanks,

Rich

 

Just keep an eye out. just found this on ebay, don't know if it's of interest to you.

Teheren to Trieste - Story of the Tenth Indian Division - 10th - H H Sheldon Art | eBay

Nick

 

Thanks Nick,

I saw one of these books going for £50! I've got a search set up on eBay for '10th Indian Division' to see what pops up.

I'm pretty sure I came across a site that did sell replica ones... I can't find it now

 

That's the one!

Thanks Owen.

 

10th Indian Division for sure. It denotes a blue bar over a red one. In the Commonwealth military system, in common with most other militaries (the exceptions being the Communist ones, for obvious reasons) the colour blue is used on maps to denote own troops and red, the enemy. Therefore this shows own forces triumphing over the enemy. The Pakistanis re-raised the formation in 1948 with the same divisional sign albeit on a round Islamic shield rather than the Crusader or square one. Located at Lahore.

 

This is incorrect. In WWII, British practice was own troops shown in red and enemy troops in blue.

 

Has this now changed again? We've all heard the euphemism "blue on blue" denoting an attack on one's own forces.

 

I've always assumed that it was a cold war change to make the 'reds' the enemy.