Help needed - British units at liberation of Belsen?

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by divebomber35, May 21, 2009.

  1. Robert Munro

    Robert Munro Junior Member

    Firstly I will state that this post is not an apologist thread for the horrors that happened in the KZ system or the crimes committed by the Nazis during WWII however the Allied bombing caused great disruption to the German logistics system, Bergen-Belsen along with Theresianstadt were considered to be the show camps to a certain extent and Belsen in the main was used as a camp for holding prisoners who were liable for 'ransom' and evacuation to neutral countries like Sweden and Switzerland. What happened was many prisoners were crammed into Belsen as the camps in Poland were evacuated in the face of the Soviet offensives this coupled with the breakdown in the logistics system made a parlous rations system impossible to maintain. The German Wehrmacht were aware of the health disaster that was blossoming at Belsen and I believe a local truce was arranged to prevent the spread of a Typhus epidemic.

    My late father encountered Belsen concentration camp bafore and after its liberation (he was an AOP Pilot).

    Some years after, he wrote: "
    Whatever human sympathy we had with the plight of the ordinary German at that time was entirely changed by the discovery of the state of affairs at Belsen concentration camp between Rethem and Celle. The advance of 15th Scottish Division was suddenly checked a few miles south of the camp (which we did not know existed at that stage). There were rumours of high-level Red Cross negotiations about a risk of typhus and then the advance continued the next day. I was travelling along the Corps route with the ground-party when we came to a crossroads outside a small village. There was obviously something unusual going on, with small groups of people standing beside the road. One or two wore blue and white striped clothing, like pyjamas. As we came up to them we saw that they were desperately thin, their skin a dull grey-green stretched tightly over the forehead, cheekbones and lower jaw, with the neck-muscles standing out. Their heads were shaved and they were scarcely able to shuffle. Others were sitting or lying by the roadside, with a group of German civilians some way off just staring at them or looking the other way as if they did not exist.
    That was Belsen. We had been held up to allow the Swedish (or Swiss) Government to organise an orderly handover of the camp between the departing German guards and our forward troops (true to the great German maxim of 'alles in ordnung', with no doubt an exchange of receipts for the live and dead stock within the camp). The fear was that typhus might break out and be spread far and wide by the escaping inmates, if the camp was left unguarded. In fact there were few indeed with the strength to struggle beyond the gates when the German guards withdrew.
    During the next few days we had to fly up or down the Corps axis over the camp. As the camp was cleared the dead were taken out of the huts and their bodies stacked like sacks in long heaps which grew bigger daily and could be seen from the air like big potato-clamps. The smell of putrefaction was so strong that it could be smelt a hundred feet above. "

    I have an operational aerial photograph that he took of that scene.

    A letter sent home on the 14th April 1945 was censored but included the comment " I’m rather sick of the Germans – a horrible race of lunatics: there’s no tendency to fraternise with such a misguided lot of throw-backs.*, He had fought the Germans from Caen in July 1944 and I have dozens of his letters written during that period. After Belsen their tone did indeed change dramatically.
     
  2. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

    The commanding officer 2nd Scots Guards ordered the battalion in a break on exercise to visit Belsen a company at a time. We had to remove one Jock, he got very angry at a group giggling and sitting on the memorials posing for photographs. The company commander addressed the company and said 'if anyone questions why we soldier - this is the answer.
     
  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Thread moved from User Intros
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    113th LAA Regiment RA (Durham Light Infantry) arrived at Belsen on the 18th April The Panzer Barracks at Hohne, a short distance from the Belsen camp, was converted into a hospital and a transit camp The DLI Regimental Journal for October 1946 reported the battalion recorded the following personel (live)
    50,000 Inmates
    49 male SS camp guards
    26 female SS camp guards
    800 Wehrmacht Soldiers
    1,500 Hungerian Guards plus their families
    1,000 Rossian POW`s
    A military hospital containing
    2,000 wounded/Sick Wehrmacht soldiers
    100 wounded/sick SS personel.
    17,000 dead were interred in the mass graves with a maximum buriel rate of 1700 per day once the backlog was cleared individual grves/commemorations could begin.Belsen was emptied by the 19th May and the last hut was burnt to the ground on the 21st May 1945.
    63rd Anti-Tank Regt,14 Amplifier Unit, Intelligence Corps were I believe the main British units inside the camp on the 15th April but a small band of men from 1st SAS under Major Harry Poat arrived to check the camp for allied POW`s shortly before the main units arrived

    Verrieres

    The following made me think of this thread.

    I met a elderly lady today who told me he husband was in the Royal Artillery during the war and I asked her if she knew his regiment. She said she couldn't remember but he was with a Anti-Aircraft unit and one of the first to Belsen and he promised to take her there before he died. Sadly a promise he never kept.

    She did also tell me which maybe of interest that his CO wrote a book and the family have a copy so I'm assuming it was in general publication-Sadly she couldn't remember the details and her son has it along with all her husbands other war related possessions. She told me that she made carburetor's for aircraft in Leeds during WW2.

    Today was a rather good day for WW2 - I also met another lady who's husband was a Chindt and she told me she still has all his maps from WW2. She made Officer's uniforms in Leeds during WW2.

    Sooooo much information and great stories but so little time. Still its always a pleasure to listen to them.
     
  5. adam.linton

    adam.linton Junior Member

    Hi all, The subject of Bergen Belsen drew me to this thread. I am new to this website and have been trying to piece together some information on my late grandfather Ronald Albert Coe (No 1442868, 205/89th AA Regiment, No 7 section Mideast Forces. The issue is that he died in the 70's so not much info is left. He did however tell a story of being at Bergen-Belsen. He was an artist and was commissioned to document the camp along with alot of other officers from the British army etc. He told a story of meeting Kramer and painting his portrait for later exhibitions. The painting was lost after the war when my Nan and Pop took it to an exhibition and it was gone when they went to collect it. On the off chance anyone has ever heard of a painting of Kramer with the Signature at the bottom showing as CAP, I think I would believe in miracles, but is worth a try..

    I travelled to BB from Western Australia and a contact there is very helpful (can pass this onto anyone wanting it) however the record keeping of all the British troops that attended only contains the units and doesnt appear to conatin all the artisans etc..

    If any of my babble rings a bell with anyone I would appreciate some info.

    Cheers
     
  6. steenie

    steenie Junior Member

    My Father was on the detachment to clear the bodies at Belsen, He was an NCO in the HLI. After a day of horror, he went to sleep. In the morning he awoke blind! His brain had turned his eyes off in the night, almost telling him he didn't have to see this anymore. After a few weeks his eyesight came back, but it altered my Father for the rest of his life. A mentally troubled man.
     
  7. Another good book on the subject is "With the Jocks" they were the Battalion that advanced on Fallingbostel next to Belsen and gives a good account of guarding and stores found. The reason for me obtaining the book was that my father was in 205 Pioneer Corp (however after the camp had been cleared.)

    J.C.
     
  8. Scutter

    Scutter Junior Member

    Hi All
    There is more art painted by an inmate of Belson on display in the Conflict and Consequence gallery at the Kelvingrove art gallery and museum in Glasgow.
     
  9. Jane50

    Jane50 Junior Member

    I am trying to research my late father's WW2 service details. He was in the Royal Armoured Corps and saw action in North Africa, France Italy & Germany. He was a tank driver, and he always said that he was part of the British Troops who liberated Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp. His home town was Hebden Bridge Yorkshire.
    I have however, been unable to find anything on the internet except that the 11th Armoured Divsion where at Bergen Belsen. I do not know if he was part of this regiment or not. I have his DeMob papers and he was in active service from October 1939 to September 1945.
    Could anyone shed any light on these events.
     
  10. britman

    britman Senior Member

    I am trying to research my late father's WW2 service details. He was in the Royal Armoured Corps and saw action in North Africa, France Italy & Germany. He was a tank driver, and he always said that he was part of the British Troops who liberated Bergen Belsen Concentration Camp. His home town was Hebden Bridge Yorkshire.
    I have however, been unable to find anything on the internet except that the 11th Armoured Divsion where at Bergen Belsen. I do not know if he was part of this regiment or not. I have his DeMob papers and he was in active service from October 1939 to September 1945.
    Could anyone shed any light on these events.

    Jane,

    As others have pointed out to me. Have you requested his Service Record? It takes about a year, but it's really worth it.

    Jason.
     
  11. roodymiller

    roodymiller Senior Member

    Representatives from the 6th Airborne Div were there too. Mostly from the medical sections.
     
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  12. Pendock Cat

    Pendock Cat Junior Member

    I came across this Forum whilst trying to find where my Uncle was posted during the war. He died in 1969, when I was only 19 and not then into documenting the family history. My mother's comments were that the brother who went to war wasn't the one who returned, due to the things he saw. She inferred that he was one of the first into a concentration camp and that was why he would never talk about the war. A few years ago I started the family history and was determined to find out what action he was involved in but had no idea which regiment he was with. All I knew was that he had mentioned being a driver. I have only now acquired his army record and find that he was posted to the 94th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery and sent overseas on 15th July 1944. This was a support unit to the 43rd(Wessex) Infantry who in turn supported the Guards Armoured Division and saw action in Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge. All I can then find is that they carried on in the invasion of Germany, but no mention of Bergen Belsen. Having read many of the threads on this site, I can well see why my Uncle never spoke of his experiences and thus explain a lot about the man I knew.
     
  13. Poor Old Spike

    Poor Old Spike Discharged

    Josef Kramer "The Beast of Belsen" under British guard, hung Dec 1945

    [​IMG]

    Computer-enhanced photos: WW2 Photos
     
  14. LeedsLass

    LeedsLass Junior Member

    Hi. My first post here as I too was looking for information about the units there at or after the liberation of Belsen. My grandfather was in a 1/5th West Yorkshires in WW1, which became, I think part of the RFA in WW2. (He was anti-aircraft, is all I know). He was there at the liberation of Belsen and by then, a sargeant. He had been in WW1 on and off from 1914 onwards (ran away aged 14, brought back to England, then re-enlisted) so was at the First Day of the Somme, survived the whole War, and in the TA between Wars so was called up from day 1 of WW2. At one point, his lot were on fire watch during the London Blitz. But the one thing he never spoke about, was Belsen. Which is why I'd like to know more.
     
  15. Wills

    Wills Very Senior Member

  16. SMS

    SMS Junior Member

    I came across this Forum whilst trying to find where my Uncle was posted during the war. He died in 1969, when I was only 19 and not then into documenting the family history. My mother's comments were that the brother who went to war wasn't the one who returned, due to the things he saw. She inferred that he was one of the first into a concentration camp and that was why he would never talk about the war. A few years ago I started the family history and was determined to find out what action he was involved in but had no idea which regiment he was with. All I knew was that he had mentioned being a driver. I have only now acquired his army record and find that he was posted to the 94th Field Regiment, Royal Artillery and sent overseas on 15th July 1944. This was a support unit to the 43rd(Wessex) Infantry who in turn supported the Guards Armoured Division and saw action in Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge. All I can then find is that they carried on in the invasion of Germany, but no mention of Bergen Belsen. Having read many of the threads on this site, I can well see why my Uncle never spoke of his experiences and thus explain a lot about the man I knew.
    My father joined the 94th before war was declared in 1939 and was with them through to demob in 1946. He has just died and I know from conversations with him that whilst not being the first into Belsen, he was there at an early stage. He was based near Hannover at Lehrte when the war was ended and I believe he also spoke about taking local Germans to compel them to see what had happened at the camp. He also did not like to talk about the war events ( Normandy, Netherlands etc) but just told humorous or ironic stories with none of the terriible reality of the war
     
  17. shazza79

    shazza79 Junior Member

    This is my first post here. I am researching my husbands grandfather, Patrick Dalton who passed in 1967. He was sadly estranged from my mother-in-law so we do not know much information. We do however know that he was one of the first people in the liberation of Bergen-Belsen. A story has been passed down the generations that when he first arrived at the camp, a POW was standing behind a door with a knife as he thought it was a camp officer entering the building. Luckily, Patrick spoke when he entered the building and the POW realised that he was an Irish soldier and dropped the knife.

    I believe he was with the Kings 8th Royal Irish Hussars but I have no solid evidence to back this up.
     
  18. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  19. PhilGraham1

    PhilGraham1 Junior Member

    11th Armoured Division were the ones who liberated Bergen-Belsen, which incidently is where I am at this very moment. Have a look at this the link below please for unit composition and so. The area I am researching is just before Bergen-Belsen's liberation, but to put things simply, 11 Armd Div crossed the Aller at Essel, went on to Winsen and then northwards to Bergen-Belsen:

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/allied-units-general/50453-11th-armoured-division-crossing-weser-leine-aller-april-1945-a.html
     
  20. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Bergen Belsen

    While searching for Paras present at Bergen Belsen I came across this moving YouTube video with oh so too few views.

    [YOUTUBE]7ehB_e9LfD8[/YOUTUBE]
    Part 2 can be seen here:

    WW2: The Liberation of Belsen 2 - YouTube

    Regards ...
     
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