Help needed to trace relatives of airman killed in Holland 1943 by Dutch researcher

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by STAN50, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    I happened to be listening to a local radio station this morning - BBC Essex - and there was a short article on there featuring a request from a Dutch researcher trying to find relatives of an airman killed in 1943.

    Near the town where he lives a Halifax crashed. Two of the crew were killed and five became POW's.
    In September this year he is going to unveil a memorial to the crew killed and he needs help tracing family of the tail gunner.

    Having recently completed a similar project I know how difficult this sort of research can be and one needs all the help they can get.

    Rob Lanting, the researcher, is seeking relatives of Bertram Thomas Henry Scudder who lived in Hadleigh Essex. He was the tail gunner and was on his very first operation.

    I have put a link to the radio programme below which will be available for a few days no doubt.
    You need to go to 2 hours 33 mins and 24 seconds into the programme.

    Rob Lantings e-mail address is given as:

    lantingrob@hotmail.com

    I have e-mailed him asking for as much info as possible and am awaiting a response.

    If anyone can help then please get in touch with him.

    BBC Essex - Dave Monk Programme link:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01cdh18

    ATB

    Stan50
     
    dbf likes this.
  2. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Rob Lantings has contacted the 434 RCAF Squadron website .
    Here's what I have from there and also RAF Loss Card http://www.lancasterbombers.net/Loss_Cards/1943/Sept_43/Sept_43_Pt6/files/book.swf
    Halifax Mk V DK259. Code WL-L. Equipped with Gee. Target Bochum. Take off 18:30
    SCUDDER, BERTRAM THOMAS HENRY. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Flt. Engr. Service No: 1582262. Date of Death: 29/09/1943. Age: 18
    Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 434 (R.C.A.F.) Sqdn
    Grave Reference: Grave 206. Cemetery: ENSCHEDE EASTERN GENERAL CEMETERY
    Additional Information: Son of Bert Henry and Edith Maud Scudder, of Hadleigh, Essex.
    (Loss Card notes as 2nd operation)

    BELLINGER, WILLIAM GEORGE. Rank: Flying Officer. Trade: Nav. Service No: J/13120. Date of Death: 29/09/1943. Age: 21.
    Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force. 434 Sqdn.
    Grave Reference: Grave 207. Cemetery: ENSCHEDE EASTERN GENERAL CEMETERY
    Additional Information: Son of Harold D. and Elvera L. Bellinger, of Windsor, Ontario, Canada.
    (Died in hospital of leg wounds) Loss Card shows him as bomb aimer, but crew member(s) say Navigator.

    2nd Lt Jackson Temple Clary (pilot) USAAF Service Number O.885969; escaped; (18 operations)
    Pilot Officer G V Hastings, Navigator, CAN/J17665; PoW;
    Pilot Officer J A L Lockhart CAN/J18450; PoW;
    Technical Sergeant R W Stuart USAAF; 10601019; (mid upper) PoW;
    Pilot Officer C V Hovey CAN/J17408 (rear) PoW

    K100: Outbound - fighter- crossed Dutch coast at 18,000 ft about 10m S of mark. Pilot wanted to change course but Nav persuaded him to wait for good Gee fix. Continued climbing and changed course at 19,500 ft flying straight and level at 145 mph IAS. Attacked about 1 minute later by enemy aircraft without warning, probably .................
    ............. starboard inner engine and wing bomb bay being hit. Bomb aimer wounded by cannon shell in legs and hip; Flight Engineer may have been killed or seriously wounded. Pilot put aircraft into a shallow dive and when he noticed fire gave the order to prepare to abandon. Damaged engine feathered and fire extinguished. Bombs jettisoned except those in starboard bay which was causing fire in the wing inboard of the inner engine. Both gunners were firing, rear gunner directed pilot to dive to port. Enemy aircraft put in a second big burst damaging tail unit and rudders. Navigator and bomb aimer baled out- more of aircraft doing sixty, stalled ship and go down rapidly in spin. Pilot landed near Enschede. Told that when aircraft crashed one wing broke off and fuselage broke in two aft of mainplanes. Wing and rear part of fuselage undamaged. Told bomb aimer died in hospital shortly after landing. Bellinger and Scudden.... of Halifax shot down 29.9.43. 61(?)10.43.
    274B: Aircraft raked from front and rear by enemy fighter. Bomb aimer hit in body by cannon shell. Fire in starboard wing and in fuselage and when ... forward hatch jettisoned after second attack. W/Op assisted bomb aimer out, followed then they ... aircraft spinning .........and Nav floated down and apprehended.... Bomb aimer died in hospital a few minutes after we got here. F/Eng apparently unable to don his parachute.

    Perhaps someone can make better sense of this...
    I'm obviously interested as an ex Sarfender and hope the Southend Evening Echo may also be willing to publish details, now we have something of the crew details and circumstances of the loss.
    Stan50: By all means pass this info on to Rob, he may not have all of it...
    Good luck!

    EDIT: Also found this link, with crew photo....
    http://ww2airforce.jouwweb.nl/crashsite-database/halifax/halifax-v-dk259-l

    Might be worth contacting if they know more... (although the reference to staying onboard as he was scared may be unkind if he had already been mortally wounded during the fighter attack). Also Bellingham link has details that he was caught in a tree and rescued, but died of wounds, including the loss of part of his foot.

    and yet more here, http://www.ww2f.com/topic/45204-american-in-the-raf/


    Name: Bertram T H Scudder. Mother's Maiden Surname: Pullen. Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1925
    Registration District: London City, Greater London. Volume: 1c. Page: 2
     
  3. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    From Ancestry there was a Bertram T.H. Scudder born Jun 1925 in the Reg. District of London City, Inferred County Greater London, Volume No: 1C, Page 2. Mothers maiden name Pullen.

    I'm assuming this is his father from the 1929 Kelly's Directory:- B. Scudder, London Road, Essex, Occupation Draper. See what else I can find.

    There's a Bert H. Scudder marries an Edith M. M. Pullen in the Reg District of Rochford, Essex Jul-Sep 1924 Vol. 4a, Page 1780.

    According to a family tree on Ancestry there was Bert Albert Henry Scudder born 16 Oct 1899, Essex that died 1970 at Southend on Sea Vol 4A 2356. Accordng to the family tree owner there were 3 children, but details retained as private. So possibly 2 siblings.

    The tree owner at Ancestry is called Geoff Pain from Perth, Western Australia. Doing a Google search there is a Geoff Pain with a profile on LinkedIn, Australia and he is CEO at Elder Market Research.

    There are also a couple of news articles at the britishnewspaper archives but I don't have access to read them. References attached.

    I've found an email address for Geoff and emailed him and cc'd in Rob.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Not much more to add, other than Betram Scudder appears to be an only child. His parents lived at 48 Meadow Road Hadleigh until the 70's when they died.

    It is possible that Bertams father was born out of wedlock, so may well also be an only child, so not many leads to go on Im afraid.

    Edith Maud Pullen, does appear in a family tree so I have sent the owner a link to this thread
     
  5. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    Well done to those who've responded. I haven't heard back from my e-mail to Rob Lanting sent yesterday early evening yet. Phil, that address could well be the key to finding out more information. As kevenBattle is suggesting the Southend Echo could be the way to go with the next step of the enquiry. We need to know if Rob has submitted anything to the local press in that area yet.
     
  6. amberdog45

    amberdog45 Senior Member

    If somebody on here could contact the local authority for the possible burial details of the father in 1970 at Southend on Sea, it could reveal the other names of his children if details are kept of the head stone inscription.

    Email to Geoff failed. Anybody on here with a LinkedIn account that could contact him?
     
  7. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

  8. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    Geoff Pain has got in contact with me from Australia, and he has emailed Rob Lanting. He is going to see if there is anyone in the UK who can provide some further details on Bertram or could attend the ceremony


    Phil
     
  9. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    I have received an e-mail from Rob Lanting today and passed him the links to the thread on here and on 'Rootschat.' He doesn't mention whether Geoff Pain has contacted him yet.

    He informs me in his contact that he's still looking for relatives of these crew:

    Stuart - USA
    Hovey - Canada
    Hastings - Canada
    Bellinger - Canada.

    If anyone's up for a further challenge over to you.

    On Monday I'll see if it's possible to obtain a death certificate of the father - Albert Scudder giving the 48 Meadow Road address.

    Phil. PM on the way. Chris.
     
  10. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Do you get something that niggles at the back of your mind?

    I prepared a Roll of Honour for Thundersley almost 2 years ago.
    I thought about this in the night and looked and there is this chap...
    Name: SCUDDER, WILLIAM. Rank: Private. Regiment/Service: Grenadier Guards. Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 27/08/1918. Service No: 26623
    Grave/Memorial Reference: V. C. 14. Cemetery: Mory Abbey Military Cemetery, Mory
    Name: William Scudder. Birth Place: Thundersley, Essex. Death Date: 27 Aug 1918. Death Location: France & Flanders.
    Enlistment Location: Southend. Rank: Guardsman. Regiment: Grenadier Guards. Battalion: 2nd Battalion. Number: 26623.
    Type of Casualty: Killed in action. Theatre of War: Western European Theatre.

    However, I didn't collect Bertram in Round Two as his address was Hadleigh, but that's the adjacent district....
    In 1911 Census, William, wife Florence and 2 daughters and 2 boys are in Church Road, Thundersley.

    So, it's likely that there is a relationship between Bert Henry and William, being virtually on each others doorsteps.

    I've also contacted the owner of another Family Tree who doesn't think they are related as all his Scudders come from the Southend area.
    As this is close to the Southend area, I've asked them to look again at any connection.

    Does anyone have details of what is happening for this commemoration?
    If relatives are found in US and Canada, then there's not much time for them to get organised.

    I'll also try contacting via the 434 Squadron Association, but if previous experience with another RCAF Assn is the norm, don't hold your breath.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates all the time and effort you are all putting in to help people connect with a lost part of their family history, and to ensure the memory of these brave chaps is not forgotten.

    Clary managed to get back via the Comete line to Gibraltar and was back in UK by November, pretty speedy! No doubt that where muck of the Loss Record info came from.
     
  11. RobLanting

    RobLanting Member

    Hi all,

    My name is Rob Lanting, one of the 4 researchers in Holland.
    Thanks all for helping, as it is quite urgent.
    I hope to find close members, Geoff is already looking at his familytree.

    KevinBattle, could you please inform us about your detailed
    information about the reports of the actual crash. I have the DVDs of the family of
    the pilot where he explains it, but we still see gaps.
    Therefore Iam interested as well where you got those details you mentioned.
    We are busy with a little book where all of our information has Bern shown, from
    eye witness reports to photos etcetera. The details about
    the exact crash could be important for our little book as they might be additional help.

    Hope to hear from you.

    Rob
     
  12. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Rob, I have your messages. All my info is from scouring the internet, and the help of many others, here, on Rootschat and elsewhere.
    All we want to do is ensure that we do as much for these crewmen as we would hope their relatives would do for us.

    If you know of Adrian van Zantvoort, (HR735) please contact him in Eindhoven and he'll tell you how I've been able to help him in similar circumstances.

    I think you contacted Clary's niece, is she still involved?
    You also contacted 434 Squadron but Clary seems to be the only respondent.

    Stuart enlisted outside of the US, possibly in UK but may also have crossed the border into Canada.

    Hovey may be the same one who was an eminent researcher in insects in the mid 50's but don't know what happened to him subsequently.

    I've had no luck so far with Hastings or Bellinger traces.

    You have my email address via facebook, or you can reach me here or on Rootschat, or Stan on any number of Aircrew or Airfield related forums!

    Can you post any details of what is intended to commemorate the 70th anniversary of this crash?
    Times, dates, places etc, as accommodation may be required for transatlantic guests.

    It's a wonderful feeling that after so long the sacrifice these men gave is still honoured.
    On behalf of them, I say "Thank You".
     
  13. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Hi Rob,

    This will save me having to write all this out again:

    http://www.ww2f.com/topic/45204-american-in-the-raf/

    Since writing that in May of 2012, I have confirmed that both Clary and Stuart were ex-RCAF.

    Clary, as you know, is deceased. I will come back on Stuart.

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  14. Pieter F

    Pieter F Very Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum Rob. You are doing a great job with the research. What will be the date for the unveiling? If you have any questions regarding the preperations for the unveiling, don't hesitate to e-mail me. I have erected a memorial for a Wellington crew last year in my hometown, so I might be able to help with any questions you have.
     
  15. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Thanks, Dave, I did pick up on that from scouring the internet, just hadn't incorporated it, but it does explain the presence of two "USAAF" crew members, serving out their RCAF tours.

    I've also found a link to Ex US PoW's and have emailed them regarding Stuart.
    http://www.axpow.org/contact.html
    It might be the same as yours, Dave, so apologies if stepping in your tracks!

    It's now the time for our Canadian friends to help with Bellinger, Hovey, Hastings and Lockhart.
    I've traced their PoW numbers
    Camp PoW No
    L3 2621 Hovey C Y J/17106 RCAF
    L3 2616 Hastings G V J/17665 RCAF
    L3 2624 Lockhart I A L J/18450 RCAF

    Lockhart may be a transcription error for the JAL shown in the Loss Card crew details.
    It's possible Stuart was also in Luft 3 with a similar PoW number, but the List only shows RAF etc crews, not USAAF ones.

    Thanks to all who've pitched in!
     
  16. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    Hi to all. Just to say that I've tracked down the death certificate of the father Albert Henry Scudder and it is being posted to me today. So I should have this to hand in a couple of days all being well. The fathers death was registered by a relative who's name is on the document. Once I have this we can publish an appeal directed to that person and maybe someone will see it.

    I've also contacted one of the researchers who helped me with my own project in London Ontario to see whether he's interested in some research ref. the Canadians.

    There is not a lot of time however between now and Rob's memorial being unveiled.

    ATB

    Chris.
     
  17. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Not stepping on my tracks, Kevin. You've emailed Clydie. I hope she replies.

    In looking at the various sites which have information on this I see that we don't even have the full names of the crew. Let's fix that.

    The navigator was George Victor Hastings on Winnipeg, Manitoba:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hastings_%28Manitoba_politician%29

    http://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-71125/
    He and his wife had no children. But before anybody gets excited about contacting Margaret she left us this past April:

    http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Margaret-Hastings&lc=3751&pid=164568483&mid=5517283

    George had a brother, Edward, who passed away in 2001. As I'm not fan of putting the names of living people into the public domain:

    http://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-60017/name-Edward_Hastings/

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  18. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    http://www.lifenews.ca/announcement/1788746-lockhart-ivan-arthur-lewis-rcaf-ve

    The obituary goes on to name all his children and grandchildren, should anybody wish to make contact.

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  19. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Clarence York Hovey of Ottawa, Ontario

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2194&dat=19431108&id=vvouAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_dsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3866,1410288

    Clarence had two brothers, Harold and Harry. From Harry's obituary:

    http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/ottawacitizen/obituary.aspx?n=harry-hovey&pid=148355113#fbLoggedOut

    From Harold's obituary, we see that Clarence, nicknamed Chuck, lived in Niagara Falls, Ontario

    http://www.federationgenealogie.qc.ca/avisdeces/avis/afficher?id=20221

    There are enough family members listed in both obituaries for someone to reach out.

    Regards,

    Dave
     

    Attached Files:

  20. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    William George Bellinger

    http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/water1918.htm

    I can't find any siblings for William George. That part of Ontario is made up of a large number of Germans (the town of Kitchener was originally called "Berlin"). The Deppisch family have a large presence so maybe?

    http://generations.regionofwaterloo.ca/familygroup.php?familyID=F7659&tree=generations

    Regards,

    Dave
     

Share This Page