Help needed to trace relatives of airman killed in Holland 1943 by Dutch researcher

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by STAN50, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. RobLanting

    RobLanting Member

    Dear all,

    Thanks again for all helping us.
    To inform you, we have found relatives of Scudder and Hovey. Since today we are succesfully in contact to the daughter of Hovey. She was very exited hearing about us.
    Besides this, we are very close on Hastings. Via the condoleances on the internet we have traced down people who have sent our information towards closer relatives. We are awaiting respond.

    Still, 2 more crewmembers to go...
    Technical Sergeant Richard William Stuart USAAF; 10601019; (mid upper) PoW
    William George Bellinger.

    We have also heard there is a big chance that the Mayor will attend on our ceremony.

    Rob
     
  2. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    I'm just wondering where I got the "William" from.
    All info seems to show only as "W" but there are records for a Richard WARD Stuart which seem to match.

    All I can say is that it's a Richard W Stuart. The Ward seems to be a stronger possibility as I don't think anything has shown up for a R William Stuart.
    Apologies if I jumped to a "likely" middle name (for English names) whereas Americans can use a wider range, possibly based on a matriarchal surname.

    The Southend Evening Echo have now contacted me, so a story should be appearing shortly.
    Hopefully that will get some responses from "local" Scudder relations.
     
  3. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

  4. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    The local press in the Hadleigh South Essex area have today published an appeal for help with Bertram Scudders family.

    Well done to Kevin for getting this done.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    Just an update to those interested. BBC Essex will be broadcasting an update on the progress made with the research on the 'Dave Monk' programme here in the U.K. tomorrow Friday 16.08.13 at 11.30am, and this will be available on i player up to the 23rd August.
     
  6. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    Also, Rob Lanting has forwarded a newspaper article from The Netherlands. This is written all in Dutch so unless readers have knowledge of the language........ but it's interesting to see a picture of Rob and his fellow project researchers.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

  8. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

  9. ErikSchaddelee

    ErikSchaddelee New Member

    Hello everyone,

    to keep you all updated about our search, here is some info :)

    This year it is exactly 70 years ago the plane crashed near Boekelo (Netherlands) on the 29th of September 1943. Of seven crewmembers, two died and the other five survived. We are proud to tell you that we will reveal a monument for this crew in Boekelo on the 29th of September during a special memorial service. The Mayor of Enschede will be there to give a speech and reveal the monument. The Chairman of the Southend-on-Sea Branch of the Royal Airforces Association want to send a wreath (they may be coming over as well) as a mark of respect to Bertram Scudder, one of the two dead crewmembers. Sgt Laurie Dyck (assistant to the Canadian Defence Attaché in The Hague) and her husband will join the memorial. So far we have 13 family members of the crew (Scudder, Hastings, Clary and Lockhart) confirmed who are coming to the Netherlands for the memorial. Also many families of the Dutch people who helped the airmen will be present.

    Since we have so much information, we are also writing a book about this plane and his crew and are making a website for it. A local artist is making a painting , which we are going to use as a book cover also, from the crewmembers (the faces when they where flying that plane). So we never forget their faces. This week we also appeared with our story in the regional newspaper. Through our worldwide friends there will be articles published in Canadian, England’s and USA local newspapers.

    Here is a short list of what we found out so far: (there is more than I can put in this mail)

    The German Ace Prinz zur Lippe-Weissenveld shot down the plane. He was a highly decorated pilot and far related to Prins Bernhard (our King’s grandfather).

    American Pilot Jackson Temple Clary returned back to England after help from the underground and people from the ‘Comet Line’. We have contact with his family and have many documents, photo’s and dvd’s with his story about the crash. We are also in touch with the Dutch family who helped him. In 1943 Clary gave 16 year old Lies van Oven a little ring. Lies is still alive and in possession of that ring. She and her family will also attend the memorial.

    Canadian Wireless Operator Ivan Lockhart was captured and send to Stalag Luft 3. This prison camp is well known from the movie ‘The Great Escape’ . We are in contact with his family and have his memoires. We are all thrilled to have them, he tell’s his story from the crash until his liberation. And was actively involved with the preparations of the escape.

    American Richard Stuart survived the war and returned to the USA. He also served during the Korean and the Vietnam War and returned to Boekelo 25 years after the crash. We have contact with the family who helped him in 1943. They provided us with documents and pictures. Just yesterday we got in contact with his nephew.

    Clarence York Hovey, from Canada (yes even I make mistakes), got captured and send to Stalag Luft 3. In 1979 a Dutch man tried to get him in touch with the family who helped Hovey. Clarence never came to the Netherlands due to health issues. Two weeks ago I came in contact with his daughter. She was exited to hear what we have been doing and is going to send us his logbook, scrapbook and many pictures. She also told me he too had been active in preparation for ‘The Great Escape’. After the war he worked for the Ministry of Agriculture and later he was teaching History and Science at a high school. Later he became a tour bus driver.

    George Victor Hastings returned to Canada after the war and became a political activist and businessman in Manitoba, Canada. He challenged Errick Willings for the leadership of the Progressive Party of Manitoba in 1950. He died in 2002.

    Canadian William George Bellinger was severely wounded, managed to bail out and was found hanging with his parachute in a tree. Local people managed to free him, but he died at the home of the Nijhuis Family. We have contact with that family and have newspaper clippings and documents. Today a witness called. His wife seen it happen and she has a photograph of him.

    One of the youngest crewmember who died is 18 year old Bertram Scudder from the United Kingdom. Through radio BBC Essex two weeks ago we have found family members and they will attend the memorial as well. They are trying to find out if they have some pictures of him as well. Past week we’ve been on air again, BBC Essex was thrilled to hear the latest news.

    Both men are buried in Enschede at the Eastern Cemetary.

    If you are interested to ‘hear’ our story, this is a link to the BBC Essex broadcast last week : http://www.schaddelee.com/ww2/bbc_essex_scudder.mp3
     
  10. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    I have now obtained Edith Scudders probate details from 1979 showing the benefactors from her will. This gives several addresses.

    To save time bearing in mind the unveiling will take place on the 29th of this month, is there anyone willing to do some leg work and door knocking to see whether these people are still residing at the same addresses?

    If so, these are the areas concerned:

    Leigh on Sea X2,
    Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire X2,
    Dursley, Gloucestershire.

    PM me if you can help in those areas, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2023
  11. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    You guys have no shame, do you?

    In your efforts to "locate" all the families I have seen you post that one's widow was senile, another's brther is losing his memory etc.

    This how you plan to "honour" their memory? What an insult. If you had the slightest modicum of sensitivity you should have used it in "finding " these people.

    Had I known what insuting treatenet they would receive at the hands of you lot, I wiuyldn't have awsted the 10 mins it too me to locate these families.

    And they will now, of course, have to pay their own way over so they can be insulted again. Shame on all of you.

    And get it right, for crying out loud:

    >>Clarence York Hovey, also from America, got captured and send to Stalag Luft 3. The man was from Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA

    >>Canadian William George Bellinger was severely wounded, managed to bail out and was found hanging with his parachute in a tree.

    I am looking at F/O Bellinger's RCAF service file as I write tjhs. He did not die a pretty death. And I'll be damned if I am going to tell you or your minions, KevinBattle, a thing more about this crew.

    To quote my research associate, Peter Fydenchuk:

    Amen to that!

    So Rob, Eric et al, shall we start with some personal info on here? I wouldn't lower myself to waste the time.

    For an idea of how a tribute might look have a peek at Pieter's or Adrians'.

    I am disgusted by the whole venture.

    Dave
     
    AlanW likes this.
  12. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    Dear Dave 'alien eyes' I have sent you a PM.
     
  13. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    "minions" :angry: I've never met these guys, nor have I had anything to do with any information they put out.

    English isn't their first language, their expressions might not be perfect and choice of words "unfortunate".

    But to class me as one of their minions is as equally offensive to me.

    Like you, I got involved because one crew member was from my home area.
    However much you dislike whatever they have done, they do seem to be remembering the crew, which doesn't appear to be the case with the relatives that I tried to get the message to.

    I do hope you will calm down and apologise as publicly for including me in your opprobrium.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Right chaps.
    I've been away for the weekend, and have not followed this thread at all.
    Currently on my phone eating rather nice fish and chips, and it's all rather hard to take in on a small screen.

    I hope nobody minds if I hide the whole thread for an evening so I can have a proper shufti later tonight on a real pooter. Seems worthwhile as it seems to have created something of a stir.

    Cheers, and bear with me.
    ~A
     
  15. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    OK, chaps.

    I've combed through this now - it really isn't my field and I don't claim to fully understand it, but I can't see much wrong here.

    As far as I can tell, if offence was caused originally, it appears to have been on external sites to this one.
    I'm not really in a position to comment on external stuff; people will link out, but I can only really comment on stuff here.

    The disagreements that seem to have boiled up (which I have not followed up the basis for on external sites) look like they need to be sorted out between participants, either in a civil manner here or via private channels.


    Goes without saying that there has to be a certain caution re. living people's details on this sort of stuff, but I can't see quite where that line has been crossed, here, on this topic.
    Thread unhidden/opened.
     
  16. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    So there it is Dave...
    Whatever it was that "got your goat" so spectacularly was nothing to do with this forum.
    Nor was it IN ANY WAY connected to what I have posted here.
    I can also assure you that I have not posted anything that would cause you to link me with whatever happened for you to blow your top.

    From the typo's littering your post, it was either done in anger or under the influence, neither state a good one for posting comprehensible or accurate posts.

    I am no one's minion, be man enough to PUBLICLY retract your accusation of my involvement in anything offensive at your next visit here.
     
  17. AlanW

    AlanW Senior Member

     
  18. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Noun[SIZE=small][[/SIZE]edit]
    minion (plural minions)
    1. A loyal servant of another, usually a more powerful being. [SIZE=.65em] [quotations ▼][/SIZE] The archvillain deployed his minions to simultaneously rob every bank in the city.
    2. A sycophantic follower.
    3. (typography, uncountable) A size of type smaller than brevier but larger than nonpareil, roughly equivalent to 7pt.
    KevinBattle said:
    ======================================================================
    Wow! Impressive.
    You may be pleased to know that through your efforts contact has been made with the Hovey family
    On Rootschat it's been requested to put the info on WW2Talk and seems only proper that you do so, as without your skills we wouldn't have got there.

    Hi, I have just received a message from Rob Lanting, he asked me to post it here. Could someone also post it on ww2talk to keep them informed. Thanks.

    Could you post a message on my behalf?
    1) we found a daughter of Hovey, via your contact. A woman picked up and she said her mother lived there who
    was a bit XXXXXX. She was married to Hovey for 8 years. She sent us details of a direct daughter of Clarence Hovey, Terry.

    2) we are almost in contact to Hastings relatives via details on the internet due to the death of Margaret, the wife
    of George Hastings. (april) Somebody was extremely interested and said he will pass the info through to relatives right away.

    So, thanks
    My email is XXXXXXXXXXXif needed (but you probably have found that already!)

    Today's new word, Kevin, is disingenuous.

    I do not drunk btw, but would gladly share a glss of ale with any of this crews families.

    PM me your solictor's name,please

    Regards,

    Dave
     
  19. STAN50

    STAN50 Senior Member

    Can we keep focussed on what's trying to be achieved here?

    Dave, I don't know what your problem is but you've had your moment now please let it drop.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
    Owen likes this.
  20. Lofty1

    Lofty1 Senior Member

    I say chaps, STEADY ON. :confused:
     
    Owen likes this.

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