My grandfather - John Lovely Urwin - served with the RE in WW2 - Service number 1927455 and enlisted on the 9th Jan 1939. We know very little about his service history as he never talked about it. We understand he was evacuated from Dunkirk and was a Staff Sgt in 972 IWT Light Aid Workshop - No.10 Port Op Grp RE - around D-Day. I understand he was promoted to RSM and then WO2 before his discharge in 1946. I am trying to find out any information on what he did during WW2 where he was and what his unit was doing - any help would be gratefully received.
What parts are giving you trouble? Possibly these: Promoted A / P / Sgt: Promoted Acting Paid Sergeant, 16/3/44. Promoted A / U / S Sgt: Promoted Acting Unpaid Staff Sergeant, 10/6/44. Granted P / A / S Sgt: Granted Pay (as) Acting Staff Sergeant, with effect from 10/6/44. Granted W / Rank of S/Sgt: Granted Wartime Rank of Staff Sergeant, 7/12/44. Promoted U / A / Rank of WOII: Promoted Unpaid Acting Rank of Warrant Officer Second Class, with effect from 25/6/45. Gtd P/A/Rank of WOII: Granted Pay (as) Acting Rank of Warrant Officer Second Class, with effect from 25/6/45. Warrant Officer Second Class, incidentally, is CSM: Company Sergeant Major or, in this case, QMS = Quartermaster Sergeant (Technical). In each case, the 'authy' is the 'authority': the code for the order that was given for the promotion on change in status.
Much appreciated - that makes the ranks clear - my main focus is his service history - where he was and what he did - as I said he never talked about his wartime experiences and although there may not be a great amount of detail available to have some idea would be helpful - I am new to this so am really starting from scratch.
Get a copy of military service records - GOV.UK You'll want to apply for his service records if you don't already have them: they are not identical to the documents you have posted: they should show unit names and general locations. Even if the latter don't feature, the former with the dates will allow you to place him on pretty much any day. If you then want to drop down a level of detail, you'll be able to consult the unit War Diaries at the National Archives. These are the day to day logs of (pretty much) every unit and often include a wealth of specific information on what was afoot.
Port Operating Groups War Diaries Search for : 10 port operating group royal engineers Reference: WO 166/15228 Description: 10 Gp. Date: 1944 Mar.-May Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record(s) Closure status: Open Document, Open Description Access conditions: Closed For 29 years Reference: WO 166/15228 Description: 10 Gp. Date: 1944 Mar.-May Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record(s) Closure status: Open Document, Open Description Access conditions: Closed For 29 years Reference: WO 171/5872 Description: 10 Gp. Date: 1945 Jan.- Dec. Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record(s) Closure status: Open Document, Open Description Reference: WO 171/9585 Description: 10 Port Op. Gp. Date: 1946 Jan.- June Held by: The National Archives, Kew Legal status: Public Record(s) Closure status: Open Document, Open Description TD
Seems as though he started life (1940) as a cook and made changes in 1944 to Royal Engineers, in the record above there is quite a gap between Oct 1940 and Mar 1944 TD
I see you've added a citation: 972 IWT Light Aid Workshop Company, Royal Engineers No. 10 Port Op. GP. RE. (Number 10 Port Operations Group?) - Edit: Operating--see post above. I'm not familiar with the unit, but somebody will be and then we'll find out their movements. Next!
Royal Engineers - Wikipedia "The Royal Engineers, Ports Section, operated harbours and ports for the army and used mainly specialised vessels such as tugs and dredgers. During the Second World War the Royal Engineers' Blue Ensign was flown from the Mulberry harbours." Also perhaps search this site as this topic has been seen before TD
Can anybody make out the second line on the list of promotions? Cookery Training, 'somewhere' in Exeter. I'm a fool: it says Cookery Training Centre, Exeter.
Hello and welcome to the forum. I can tell you he wouldn't have been with 972 IWT Light Aid Workshop at Dunkirk/France 1939-1940. I think Inland Waterway units were formed prior to DDay. Regards Andy
This might help. 972 Inland Water Transport Light Aid Workshop, REME Juno Beach Landing Tables - D-Day 6 June 1944 Or maybe not. Only saw this piece on page 191. Inland Water Transport Companies, RE 961 and 966 Inland Water Transport Companies, RE plus part of 946 Inland Water Transport Company, RE operated Rhino ferries with the assistance of 243 and 207 Pioneer Companies. 972 Inland Water Transport Light Aid Workshop, REME provided maintenance and repair.
My father-in-law was an Officer in 966 Inland Water Transport, he arrived around 24 hrs after D-Day. As RCG said above, 972 operated Rhino ferries. I have some information but Mike aka Trux on the forum is your man for this who can explain it all much more than me. I will alert him to this thread and he will, I am sure, be in touch soon. Lesley
Mick, I can never disobey Lesley. 10 Port Operating Group were responsible for operating Mulberry B, the artificial harbour. I do not have the War Diaries but will see what I can find. 972 Inland Water Transport Light Aid Workshop was responsible for maintenance and first line repair of the equipment, which was tugs and barges. More later I hope. Mike.
Although grandfather John was with 10 Port Operating Group later his promotion in June 1944 seems to be with 4 Port Operating Group. It does not make a great deal of difference since both groups were working on Mulberry B. Below is the establishment of the Inland Water Transport Light Aid Workshop. Its role at Mulberry was maintenance and repair of the barges and TID tugs (of which more later.) Since he was later a Quartermaster Serjeant (Technical) he would not be a cook. Perhaps that was a course taken early in the war when each unit had its own personnel as cooks. Later cooks belonged to the Army Catering Corp. INLAND WATER TRANSPORT LIGHT AID WORKSHOP RE War Establishment IV/214/1. December 1944 Vehicles. 4 X bicycle 5 X motorcycle 4 X car 2 seater 3 X 15cwt GS 3 X 3ton 4 X 2 GS 1 X 1ton trailer GS Headquarters: Major Captain Subaltern, Administration Company Serjeant Major company quartermaster serjeant serjeant clerk 5 X serjeant, technical 3 X corporal 6 X sapper 9 X driver, including one corporal 4 X cook ACC Trades: 4 X clerk including one corporal for pay duties draughtsman, mechanical, corporal 2 X motorcyclist 2 X storeman, technical including one corporal 2 X batman 4 X driver including one corporal 3 X orderly sanitary dutyman There were three detachment each with: Subaltern corporal 10 X sapper 2 X driver Trades blacksmith blacksmiths striker and hammerman 2 X boilermaker carpenter and joiner coppersmith plumber and pipefitter rigger storeman, technical 2 X welder 2 X driver Twelve Sub Sections each with serjeant, technical corporal 9 X sapper carpenter and joiner electrician 3 X fitter holders up or riveters helper 2 X riveter shipwrights mate shipwright Mike