Hitler Escaped

Discussion in 'Books, Films, TV, Radio' started by Gage, Aug 29, 2011.

  1. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    ...and that's the REAL customers. Don't get me started on Amazon sockpuppets....!
     
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  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    I was tempted
    It is nearly Panto season after all.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Drusus Nero

    Drusus Nero Banned

    For me, the biggest proof of the lot about Hitler's demise inside that bunker was the actions of Josef And Magda Goebbels.

    If there were two people that were more fanatical in their loyalty to Adolf hitler personally, I'd like to know about it. Their actions in the bunker, even going as far as putting to death their own family, indicate that they could not stomach a Germany without their beloved Leader, couldn't even see a future for their children without him.

    If Adolf had survived, Joe and Magda would have followed him, and kept their children alive..
     
    Roger Clark likes this.
  4. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    Hi Drusus ... The Goebbels point is well made. In all the discussions on Amazon I don't think I've seen anyone yet make it. Unfortunately, conspiracie theorists are impervious to reason. I think they're doing a lot of harm. They're not only rubbishing reputable historians and instiutions, they're insulting the millions who fought and died in WW2. How dare Dr Jerome Corsi, who wrote Hunting Hitler, claim Hitler escaped with the help of the US government. “We helped Hitler escape is the point of the book,’ he told Coast to Coast AM radio on 14 Jan 2014.

    The amazing thing is so many people believe him!
     
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  5. Gibbo

    Gibbo Senior Member

    It is impossible to convince conspiracy theorists that they are wrong, as they regard any evidence that apparently contradicts their theory as itself being part of the conspiracy.
     
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  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    yep it goes round in circles
     
    Roger Clark likes this.
  7. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    A Spot on Observation.

    Unfortunately, with this Age of Internet, it is so easy to post and propogate revisionistic thinkings.

    Regards
    Tom
     
    Roger Clark likes this.
  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Due to the world being flat would he not have fallen off the edge if he tried to escape
     
  9. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    Did President Eisenhower meet Hitler in Argentina in 1960?

    Did President Eisenhower meet Adolf Hitler in Argentina in 1960?

    At least one customer on Amazon thinks he did. The customer - "suelea511@comcast.net" - gives Harry Cooper's book Hitler in Argentina an enthusiastic write-up. As I demonstrated earlier Cooper has a gift for misinterpreting photos. The way he handles a picture of President Eisenhower on page 141 of his book also causes disquiet.

    Cooper visited what he calls 'the magnificent luxury hotel Llao-Llao'. The hotel was originally built of wood, but caught fire and was later rebuilt with stone. [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]'What is even more mysterious about this hotel,' writes Cooper on page 144, 'is the photograph hanging in the entrance hall, that of Dwight Eisenhower standing in front of this hotel a few years after the end of the war.' [/SIZE]

    The hotel is situated in [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]the tourist resort of San Carlos de Bariloche, Argentina. Reviewing another Hitler survival book on Amazon a [/SIZE]former Reserve Intelligence Officer, Mark Carolla, described the area. He said he'd lived in Argentina. He knew the area well and 'spent time there 3 years after the Fuhrer's alleged death in 1963'. Carolla was 'astounded' by descriptions of the place. 'San Carlos de Bariloche in the 50's and 60's even was hardly a German-Argentine Festung,' he said. 'It already was an international resort.'

    So why did Eisenhower go to this magnificent luxury hotel in this international resort in 1960? More to the point, did he meet Adolf Hitler while staying there? There was nothing mysterious, or secret about his visit. At the time the US president was on a highly publicised tour of South America. But Suelea thinks the meeting actually happened. She's sure President Eisenhower met Adolf Hitler 15 years after WW2 ended and 15 years after all major historians and authorities argue he killed himself in Berlin in 1945. The picture in Cooper's book convinced her. ‘The photo of an American president in 1960 visiting Hitler in his remote hideout was extraordinary,’ she claims.

    So let's have a look at this 'extraordinary' photo that appears on page 141. Press on all images to enlarge so you can see the detail:-

    IKE-003.jpg

    In fact, the photo shows Eisenhower at Llao-Llao with two unidentified men. Hitler is nowhere visible. The man the Amazon customer mistakes for Hitler is President Arturo Frondizi of Argentina. And here's a photo of him to prove it:-

    FRONDIZI-download-LARGE.jpg

    That picture is small so let's look at a larger image of Frondizi:-

    Frondizi_pensativo.JPG

    There's no doubt about it - the 'extraordinary' photo shows the two presidents - Eisenhower and Frondizi - but there's no Hitler in sight. Who is the third man in the background? That's Colonel Vernon Walters, Eisenhower's interpreter.

    Cooper makes the link with Hitler by sleight of hand. He places his 'extraordinary' picture near allegations on other pages that Hitler lived on an estate close to the hotel. Underneath - as you can see - he writes a caption laden with innuendo. ‘One can only wonder,’ muses Cooper, ‘what was the real reason an American President was at a resort so far from … from anything shortly after the end of the war.’

    This is wrong. It’s inconceivable the former Supreme Allied Commander, head of NATO and President of the USA connived at Hitler’s escape. Eisenhower hated Germans and was horrified when he inspected a Nazi concentration camp. Those are strong words so here's the proof - an extract from Stephen E. Ambrose's book Eisenhower the Soldier -1890 to 1952. You can find this paragraph on page 400:-

    IKE-001.jpg

    With feelings as strong as those it's difficult to believe Eisenhower would have involved himself in a Hitler escape plot, or cover-up. If he had, Ike would have shown a continuous interest in Hitler’s activities. The most hated man on earth would have been closely monitored. Think of the worldwide scandal if news leaked that the Allies were protecting Hitler! One would expect a massive paper trail and records of meetings with the FBI, CIA, etc. Ike would have spoken to many people - Churchill, General Marshall etc. There is no way this information could have remained secret. There is no convincing evidence that it exists because Hitler was long dead.

    So why did Ike visit Llao-Llao? Is there a big secret?... Alas, no! ... Eisenhower went with Argentina’s president to publicise the area and sign the Declaration of San Carlos de Bariloche in the hotel's main hall. The declaration talked about peace, freedom and cultural and material opportunities for the peoples of the Americas. The two presidents were in the hotel 28 February,1960. You may read the text of the declaration here:-


    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=12127


    President Eisenhower's itinerary for the trip is available in his daily appointment log. It lists who he visited, where he was, and what he did during the course of the day. Here is the digitized version of the log for all of February 1960. As you'll see he travelled with a large entourage and met huge numbers of people. Everywhere he went he was followed by the Press. As for Hitler? - I'm afraid he was no longer around to meet anybody. Here is Ike's itinerary:-

    http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/research/online_documents/presidential_appointment_books/1960/February_1960.pdf


    The itinerary also reveals the two presidents played four holes of golf.

    Despite what conspiracy theorists would have us believe there was nothing sinister about Ike’s visit to a famous luxury hotel in a popular tourist resort in Argentina in 1960. The hotel lies [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]35 minutes from San Carlos de Bariloche and 45 minutes from the airport. The [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]city developed as a major tourist centre in the 1930s and 1940s with ski, trekking and mountaineering facilities. In addition, it has numerous restaurants, cafés, and chocolate shops. [/SIZE][SIZE=14.3999996185303px]Okay, some former Nazis lived in the area, but not Hitler, Eva, or Bormann.[/SIZE] In 1999 the hotel became a member of The Leading Hotels of the World, and has won many important prizes, including "The Best Hotel and Resort in the Argentine Hinterland". What more natural than the US president should go to what has been described as 'Argentina's most iconic hotel ... a living glory'?

    So d[SIZE=14.3999996185303px]id President Eisenhower meet Adolf Hitler in Argentina in 1960? ... In a word - NO![/SIZE]

    Rumours and innuendo are no substitutes for hard evidence. I only wish customers would get wise to the inaccuracies in Cooper's book.
     
    Drusus Nero likes this.
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    My brain hurts.
     
  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I believe that there will always be someone out there looking to rewrite history and try making some Money at the same time.

    Unfortunately the revisionists appear to have influential friends that do not like adverse Publicity, as seen by comments on this Forum.

    I do not pretend to have answers to this ongoing Problem, but sincerley hope that Competent Historians and Forums like ours continue to battle for the truth being preserved.

    The only way that History may be re-written, is by incontravertable evidence being presented for Historians to pour over and evaluate.

    Non of this appears to have been attempted in the Revisionistic books mentioned.

    Regards
    Tom
     
    Roger Clark likes this.
  13. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    Hitler in Argentina - the Fawlty Towers connection

    The Monty Python picture reminds me of John Cleese who played Basil Fawlty in the TV comedy series Fawlty Towers. For the notorious scene where Basil does the goose-step turns up in Harry Cooper's book Hitler in Argentina. Only this time we're not supposed to laugh. Readers are supposed to take the incident seriously - as proof that Adolf Hitler once lived in South America.

    In his book Harry Cooper tells readers he visited the house in South America where the Nazi Spy Velasco was supposed to have met the elderly Hitler in 1952. Even Velasco - a serial fantasist - had doubts about the man's identity when he saw him - if he did see him. On the flight home Velasco says he was ‘filled with excitement’, but also assailed by doubts. ‘Could this shrunken old man have been the one-time ranting, dominating dictator? ’ he wondered. ‘Was this poor creature, now presiding over a million square miles of nothing, the same as he who had conquered a continent? Was this Hitler?’

    If Velasco was suspicious about the man’s identity - and he expressed doubts seven times! - why should we believe he was Hitler? Where’s the hard evidence?

    Nothing daunted, in 2009 Harry Cooper and a team of enthusiasts set out to visit the house where the man who might - or might not - have been Hitler was supposed to have lived. He tells us about it on page 138 under the headline - The Remote and Hidden Estate Inalco Hitler's Home for Many Years? ... Note the question mark. Even Harry has doubts - as well he might.

    Nonetheless, Harry and his team of 'Explorers' proudly line up and have their photos taken in front of the house. To reach this improbable destination, he tells us, 'we used two small cabin cruisers to get to the now deserted estate.' As Harry walked across the lawn a bizarre incident took place that might have come straight out of Fawlty Towers.

    ‘Our Argentine boat captain began goose-stepping with his right arm in the air …“I know who lived here,” he cried. “I lived here in my childhood. My father was the caretaker - I know who lived here!”

    Harry tells us the captain smiled ‘and set off again with his right arm in the air, goose-stepping across the grass.’

    And here's a reproduction of page 138 in Harry's book where he explains what happened in case you think I'm making this up:-

    HIT-001.jpg

    You can find more details in an Editor's note on page 113:-

    HIT-003.jpg

    The Fawlty Towers analogy may be closer to the truth than Harry Cooper realises. The goose-stepping boat captain may have been making fun of the Sharkhunters group. Only instead of realizing they were being played as fools they saw it as hard evidence. The Argentines had form when it came to taking Nazi-hunting foreigners for suckers. Remember what happened to Ladislas Farago, who wrote Aftermath - Martin Bormann and the Fourth Reich? The Argentines led him a merry dance, leading him on and taking thousands of dollars, while he chased after a non-existent Martin Bormann. The same happened to Paul Manning, who wrote the equally bogus Martin Bormann - Nazi in Exile. Perhaps Harry Cooper and his Explorers got the same treatment from an Argentine with a sense of humour.

    This book is chaotically disorganised with information all over the place ... But the big question is this - Did Harry and his 'Explorers' discover anything on the site - photos, documents, clothes, objects, DNA, etc - associated with Hitler? Did they find anything that could prove beyond doubt that Hitler once lived there? ... No! ... There was nothing. Only a goose-stepping boatman who [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]added some extra spice to the visit which it desperately needed as there was nothing for Harry and his pals to find. Put simply, [/SIZE]where is the hard evidence that Hitler ever set foot in the place, let alone lived there for years? As for Eva Braun, or Martin Bormann ... No sign of them either.

    As the previous poster pointed out - revisionists need to do better if they want to convince.
     
    custerstand likes this.
  14. custerstand

    custerstand New Member

    I want to congratulate you, Mr. Clark, on an exceptional job of debunking the tsunami of nonsense relating to Hitler's escape. Your photographic evidence that dismantles all credibility in HITLER IN ARGENTINA is completely compelling.

    Yes, the absurd and obviously doctored picture that you've reproduced from Cooper's book is - or should be! - enough to prevent future sales of the book and land sold copies in the trash.

    In wondering how such a photo - with Saddam Hussein's face pasted over the very real face of Wilhelm Huber - could ever have been printed in the first place, it is quite possible Harry Cooper is a dis-information specialist. Certain agents in specific fields purposefully spread lies in the guise of Truth in order to track and/or eventually discredit the fringe group that buys into absurdist beliefs. The thing is, no one in their right mind could possibly fall for the photo of Hitler and Saddam...unless that person is NOT in their right mind! Purposely publishing such obvious nonsense then becomes a means to ferret out the loonies in any given demographic. So are Cooper and his kind lying on purpose to uncover a larger truth? Or more mundanely, is it more about the buck than the book?

    Keep up the great work!

    Richard
     
  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Product material and design are on the refine on- is a rare product in the boutique.
    This product is an ink absorber of detachable- Needle cylinder type vacuum ink suction device.
     
  16. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Just as an additional note - you can see the actual film clip that still is taken from in the "Nemisis" episode of The World At War, detailing Hitler's last days and suicide...

    And after you actually SEE the young teen boy that Hitler presents the Iron Cross, 2nd class to, and SEE Hitler touch his face...there's a clip of an actual interview to camera with the boy in question.

    Unlike some of the weird revisionism buried in the amazing reviews on Amazon of Cooper's book - that is REAL history. On celluloid. Filmed outside the door of the Chancellery.
     
  17. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    WW1 and WW2 is quite prominent on the German Televisions at present and a couple of evenings ago on a German Documentary Channel was a documentary showing a German Forensic Scientist examining the files at the Kremlin in Russia.

    He had Access to Hitlers dental records and concluded that the denture and jaw piece was 100% that of Hitler, proving that the cremated remains found by the bunker were indeed Hitlers. A very unusual metal bridge proved to be vital evidence.

    End of Story.

    Revisionists please take note.

    Indesputable Forensic Evidence.

    Regards
    Tom
     
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  18. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Tom, that's the Mark Benecke programme I mentioned much earlier in the thread...and yes, it IS very enlightening!

    Actually - Hitler's dental records disappeared at the end of the war. The Soviets turned up at Hugo Blaschke's K-Damm offices looking for them...but they were missing. And have never turned up...

    But Mark Benecke had something better, in effect...

    In Spetember 1944 Hitler was complaining of migraines after the July 20th bomb plot...and underwent a series of full cranial x-rays ;) And THESE were preserved, and are in the German Federal Government archives. Thus Benecke wasn't just viewing a small section of "a jaw" on x-ray...which idiots could always have argued could have been anyone's jaw...he was viewing and comparing full cranial x-rays fully attested to be of Adolf Hitler ;)

    Hitler suffered from periodontal disease; among various tooth removals and bridgework...Dr. Blaschke had had to cut into the jaw bone at one point to excise infection - and the Kremlin bridgework shows the changes made to the bridgework by Blaschke after that cut. It could, quite literally, have belonged to noone else but Hitler. It was, like any bridgework, tailored specifically to the patient.

    Apart from all that - if that wasn't conclusive evidence enough...Benecke received the bridge in a very old cigar box...

    When the SMERSH team came to Blaschke's offices the day after the Hitler corpse autopsy in May 1945, hoping to find Blaschke and his records there for comparison, they brought his lower jaw and bridgework with them! In a cigar box...

    How many bits of corroborating evidence does the average revisionist need? ;)
     
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  19. Roger Clark

    Roger Clark Junior Member

    Seeing double - ludicrous Hitler survival photos

    Conspiracy theory books claiming Hitler survived WW2 and escaped abroad are tumbling off the presses. And thousands of gullible customers are buying them on Amazon convinced they are true however ludicrous their claims.

    RATLINE by Peter Levenda

    The author of Ratline by Peter Levenda, claims Adolf Hitler never committed suicide in his Berlin bunker in 1945 at the end of World War 2. Instead he thinks Hitler may have escaped to Argentina, Colombia and Brazil, and ended up in Indonesia. Assuming the identity of a German doctor - Georg Anton Pöch - Hitler donned a white coat and became a hospital administrator on a remote island. Later Hitler converted to Islam, married again after Eva Braun left him and was buried in a Muslim grave. Levenda wants the body ‘dug up and identified’.

    To prove his case Levenda publishes some unconvincing photos. These he would have us believe show an elderly Adolf Hitler - now a Muslim! - with his young bride (left). And another picture (right) of the elderly Fuhrer with an unidentified young woman and three men. These pictures have caused one critic to observe: 'The ears are most incongruous - as is the jawline and what looks to be inked-in phoney eyebrows and eye pupils.' I’ve copied the pictures from the page in the book and you can see them below:-


    PHOTO-1-HITLER-LEVENDA-POCH002.jpg

    Levenda sets out his case on pages 188 and 199 which I reproduce below:-

    PHOTO-2-HITLER-LEVENDA-POCH004-ADJUSTED.jpg

    And here is a close-up of page 199:-

    PHOTO-3-HITLER-LEVENDA-POCH003.jpg

    Nice try Mr Levenda. But I’m afraid your argument collapses when we look at some other photos of the young Hitler and compare them with the old man. Notice particularly the ears:-

    PHOTO-4-RATLINE-hitpoch-LARGE-TRIPLE.jpg

    Let’s look at a larger and higher quality image of the elderly man who the author claims is Hitler. It’s taken at an angle and we can see the detail - particularly his left ear - more clearly:

    PHOTO-5-RATLINE-ADOLF 2 (1)-LARGE.JPG

    When we look at an enlargement of the head we can see without doubt that the ear is different. The old man is not - and never was - Adolf Hitler:-

    PHOTO-6-RATLINE-hitler5-LARGE.jpg

    Here are close-ups of the two ears:-

    PHOTO-7-RATLINE-hitler523-LARGE.jpg

    The author, Peter Levenda, is proud of his discoveries. He’s had himself photographed at the Muslim grave which he claims may house the remains of Adolf Hitler in Indonesia. Here he is:-


    PHOTO-8-HITLER-LEVENDA-POCH001.jpg

    But is this the grave of Adolf Hitler? In the final pages of his book - page 234 - Peter Levenda confesses he has doubts. He admits: ‘It is even possible that no one is buried in Pöch’s tomb ... Maybe he was snatched - by the Soviets, by the Americans, by the Israelis even … Who knows?’

    So what is the point of this book? Alas, if you look at the five and four star Amazon reviews you will see many customers are convinced Adolf Hitler really did escape to Indonesia.

    I’ve written a critical one star review of Ratline on Amazon called Vague, speculative and ridiculous. I’m sorry to say, however, that many gullible customers object when bogus evidence is exposed and they’re told they’ve fallen for a conspiracy theory.


    [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

    The Man with Dumbo-like ears

    Hitler in Brazil by Simoni Renee Guerreiro Dias




    Peter Levenda claims Hitler died in Indonesia. In her book Hitler in Brazil Simoni Renee Guerreiro Dias argues Hitler died - you’ve guessed it - in Brazil. At the age of 95! Here’s a picture of the cover:-

    BRAZIL-B1-HITLER-livro-hitler-no-brasil (1)-LARGE.jpg

    According to the author the Fuhrer fled to South America from Germany in 1945 and became a treasure hunter. What’s more he married a black woman. And his favourite composer, the author tells us, was Bach. Here’s a picture of the author proudly displaying her book:-

    BRAZIL-B2-HITLER-timthumb (1)-LARGE-ADJUSTED-3333.jpg

    To prove Hitler lived in Brazil the author prints some of the least convincing Hitler survival photos ever published. The picture below is supposed to show Hitler with his arm round his black girlfriend Cutinga. The Fuhrer’s face is blurred so it’s impossible to make out his features. But compare his ears with a genuine picture of the dictator (inserted) and you’ll see a marked difference. A friend of mine says he looks like Dumbo the elephant! The old clothes are supposed to have been worn by Hitler in Brazil:-

    BRAZIL-B3-EARS-LARGE.jpg

    Our next picture is more revealing. We can see some detail in what is supposed to be Hitler’s face. Again notice the large protruding ears:-

    BRAZIL-B4-HITLER-1400883767913-LARGE.jpg

    And notice what happens when we compare that close-up with genuine pictures of Hitler. It’s bears no resemblance to authentic photos. The Dumbo-like ears give the game away:-

    BRAZIL-B5-HITLER-1400883767913-EXRA LARGE.jpg


    One thing characterises most photos published by conspiracy theorists. They’re taken by incompetent photographers. The pictures are always blurred, grainy, lacking in detail and ambiguous. Photographic illiteracy is high among conspiracy theorists. They seem incapable of taking clear pictures with a full range of tones. In this way they are free to interpret their dubious images any way they like and fool the gullible.

    Like most Hitler survival authors Simoni Renee Guerreiro Dias shows an amazing lack of photographic knowledge. Her photos are ridiculous and fail to convince. Like Peter Levenda she wants the body of the old man she claims is Hitler dug up and DNA tested. I’ll make a prediction if this happens. He won’t be Hitler.

    Meanwhile, if anyone tells me Hitler ended up in Brazil I shall always think of Dumbo.

    cloudb.jpg
     
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  20. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Actually, it's a picture of my bedroom.
     

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