HMS Sultan Singapore 1941 and 1942

followed your suggestion!

 

Hi Roy. I don’t know if you are still on this forum or still active on here but, here goes with a relevant follow up question. I too have a relative that was on the Sultan (several times) first between June 1940 and June 1941. He was a Telegraphist as well, name Edgar John Warner, born in Huddersfield, England and lived after the war in Perth, Western Australia. His service #25860. He was on the Van Galen and the Kedah as well during his service, plus other vessels. He was back on the Sultan in April to May 1946. I can post an image of the ships he served on if that is going to help anyone. Hope to hear from you or someone else re the Sultan. Thanks in advance.

 

Hi Coachcaptain,

Sorry, I don't have records of individuals. good luck with your search.

Roy

 

Hi Roy, thanks for getting back. I understand about info of individuals but any info on the Sultan. I have Googled it and there is a lot of info, some conflicting, as it was the name of a ship and a shore base as well. Was the Singapore base mainly communications? As my wife's father was a Teleg, it seems that is most likely. Thanks.

 

Forget the ship. HMS Sultan was the shore establishment in Singapore. It was Naval Base, a barracks and an accounting base. The accounting base would hold the records for not only those in HMS Sultan but also for those serving in smaller vessels so there is no guarantee that HMS Sultan on a Service Record meant someone was actually serving there. If you don't have this man's records then you need to apply for them. If you have his records then post them here or on a new thread.

Tim

 

Hi Tim. I have attached 2 files of his service records, seems he was in the Royal Navy and on loan to Royal Australian Navy with 2 different service numbers. Thanks for your interest and information.

 

No. All ranks and ratings would serve there. As Tim states it was a Naval Base.

HMS SULTAN was a shore base/naval base in Singapore, commissioned 1940. It was destroyed on surrender in 1942 but re-commissioned on re-occupation in 1945 and continued until 1947.
HMS SULTAN II was an accounting base for sea-going tenders, auxiliaries. She was the accounting base for HMS KEDAH and MFV 1541 which were sea-going drafts that he served aboard.
HMS SULTAN was also the parent establishment of the Kranji W/T station where he was drafted 7 June 41 – 28 Feb 42.

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh. Many thanks for your info and interest. I am starting to understand more about the service record as both you and Tim explained. I thought that all the info within his service records were ships he served on, on but quite a few now seem to be shore based establishments. The term 'Tender' means what exactly please? And Kranji WT? (the WT stands for) There's a lot to learn about the Navy and abbreviations so many thanks for your help.

 

Naval records can be a bit daunting for anyone just beginning to research them. A common issue that everyone struggles with is the ships, not least, because some of them or most of them are actually not ships in the sea-going sense.

Sea-going tenders, fleet tenders can be classed in a few different ways but I think it best to describe them as support or auxiliary vessels. Although SULTAN II was the accounting base for sea-going tenders that would also include all minor war vessels. HMS KEDAH was the ex-Straits Steamship Co Liner, SS Kedah requisitioned by the Royal Navy as an armed auxiliary vessel in 1939 and being a minor war vessel her account would also be held at SULTAN II.

Kranji W/T stands for Kranji Wireless Telegraphy. That was the communications station where he was based as a telegraphist. (radio operator in my time).

Regards
Hugh

 

Can get a bit complicated! The establishment/accounting base is where the records are held. When this is followed by another ship/establishment in brackets this is where the rating is actually serving. Thus Sultan II (Kedah) means his records are at Sultan II, an Accounting Base, but he is actually serving in HMS Kedah (a vessel too small to keep it's own records).
Kranji W/T is the Wireless Station at Kranji Singapore. https://www.commsmuseum.co.uk/dykes/smallsnips/kranji/kranji.pdf
Another point is that the dates shown against an entry may well include travelling. For instance 'Victory 14 Aug 39 - 24 Jun 40' will include the 90 day passage from UK to Singapore shown on your sailings list. He obviously wasn't at Kranji W/T until 28 Feb 42 as Singapore surrendered on 15 Feb so he must have left for Australia before then.
Few other points:
HMS Circe was an Auxiliary Minesweeper transferred to the RAN and renamed HMAS Medea.
HMAS Leeuwin was the Naval Base at Freemantle, Australia
HMS Lanka was the Naval Base in Ceylon
HMS Bambara was a Naval Air Station in Ceylon

Hope this helps,
Tim
(as usual Hugh is faster than me and posted when I was halfway through!)

 

Ex- LRO - still got my keyboard skills

Regards
Hugh

 

Hi again Hugh, great info and as you say so much to take in. I kind of guessed that a tender (as in steam train) would be supporting/supplying rather than in the main line, so many thanks for confirming that theory. I thought that Kedah was a large battle ship but as you point out not so. It seems he served quite a lot on land rather than sea. There is a family folklore that he was sunk and spent a few days in the water along with others, rescued and spent some time in Fremantle, Western Australia, Hospital recovering but, there is no 'record' of him being on a sunken ship in his service details. Thanks again.

 

Hi Tim. Thanks for the details and info. That link you provided makes very interesting, and quite comical (especially under the circumstances) reading, so. thanks for that. I see about adding the travelling days to the list as you say must have left Singapore before the 'fall' so that adds more info to the records for me, so thanks again. Just pipped at the post by Hugh eh, a common problem me thinks? lol. Attached is more info he did on his journeys around the globe, I assume to fill in those long hours of sea travel.

 

The Dutch HEEMSKERCK was actually the cruiser, HMNLS JACOB VAN HEEMSKERCK - HNLMS Jacob Van Heemskerck (1939) - Service History
Jacob van Heemskerck History
Regards
Hugh

 

I doubt you will find which ship(s) he escaped on. I have posted a chapter The Flight from Singapore 1942 on Resources on this site. I will give you some idea of the shambles

 

Thanks Hugh for the info, an interesting history about the Heemskerck?

 

Thank Roy for the info, I will look at your link with interest.

 

Hi everyone,

I’ve just started trying to trace my family tree and I know my grandfather, James Nicolas Roue, was in the Navy and taken POW during this time. Remarkably he survived after his ship was hit but then spent 4 years as a POW. He was eventually evacuated to Ceylon where he met my grandmother who was a nurse. I’m trying to find out what ship he was on and which camp he would have been taken to? His number was JX169187. I’m also interested in a Cecil J Rowe who I believe is his father. My grandfather changed his name and age to enrol (I think he was 16/17 at the time). I’ve attached the documents I can find. Any help would be much appreciated, thank you

 

Here is the list of ships/stations and dates he was captured