Horrocks' health during Market Garden

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Nijmegen, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    I understand that Horrocks - at some time - was "not at his best".

    Can anyone shed some more light on this?
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thought it was to do with his injuries from North Africa.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Horrocks#Europe


     
  3. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    I think I might have read somewhere - some time ago - that during Market Garden his deputy took over, for a short period. I might be wrong.
     
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Horrocks was never 100% after his wounding at Bizerta - he would often go down for a couple of days - just after he took over XXX

    Corps - Monty surprised him by finding him in bed - Monty knew there had to be something wrong as he was evasive in his

    communications which Monty thought was odd - so he surprised him…

    Horrocks on retirement improved by fishing almost everyday around Southampton waters with a couple of old pals…

    Cheers
     
  5. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Perhaps you are referring to his own thoughts, attached page 228 from his book "A Full Life", Lt-Gen Sir Brian Horrocks.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    The reason I asked:

    Here came Horrocks to Thomas's help. Interrupting both Sosabowski and Thomas, he
    exclaimed:'The conference is over. The orders given by General Thomas will be carried out.'
    Turning to Sosabowski he added, 'and if you, General, do not want to carry out the orders given to
    you, we shall find another commander for the Polish Para Brigade who will carry them out.' I was
    stunned by Horrocks's unexpected reaction. His getting up and his manner of speaking appeared to
    be a nervous outbreak. His last threat was completely unfounded as Sosabowski not even once
    mentioned he won't obey any order given to him.

    This describes a part of a meeting, south of Valburg, on 24 September, when Horrocks and Thomas announced that there would be no assault crossing in force, but only the crossing of 4 Dorset, in order to help with the withdrawal of 1 Airborne Division, It is written by Sosabowski's translator, Lieutenant Dyrda. It is about the only account of this meeting.
     
  7. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Slightly different according to Horrocks, says he met Sosabosky and George Taylor of Duke of Cornwalls light inf. Seems he met Thomas later that day.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    Morning 24 September, Horrocks was in Tactical HQ 43 Division, sout of Valburg. Of course, he met Thomas there. He then went to Driel and around 1200 this meeting took place where a limited crossing was announced.
     
  9. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    If you know the answers why bother asking.
     
  10. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    I STILL want to know the state of mind of Horrocks, during Market Garden.

    In regard of Lieutenant Dyrda's observation.
     
  11. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Is that not answered in post 5?
     
  12. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    Horrocks had trouble sleeping, so that accounts for a possible "nervous outbreak"? If he had a "nervous outbreak", that would have been serious, while he was a key decision maker.
     
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Extract from pages 132 & 133 of Essame's history .
    Which on another thread you dismiss as biased.

    ''...conference at headquarters, 43 Division ,on the morning of the 24th. Both Lieut.-General Horrocks and Major-General Sosobowski .. were present.
    ..General Sosobowski's attitude at the conference cannot honestly be described as cordial. Having heard the outline of the plan , he said, ''I am General Sosobowski, I command the Polish Para Brigade . I do as I like.''
    Lieut-General Horrocks and Major-General Thomas exchanged glances. Then Lieut-General Horrocks said: ''You are under my command. You will do as I bloody well tell you.'' To this forthright statement , General Sosobowski replied:'' All right. I command the Polish Para Brigade and I do as you bloody well say.''
     
  14. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    Perhaps something was lost or misunderstood in Dyrda's translation?
     
  15. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

  16. 51highland

    51highland Very Senior Member

    You appear to have a closed mind on the subject, i.e. Sosabowski's version is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The truth probably being somewhere in between.
     
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  17. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    Yes, I tend to go along with Lieutenant Dyrda's rather detailed observations, for now.
     
  18. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

  19. Nijmegen

    Nijmegen Member

    Well, because this sounds like someting out of context, or the other explanation, Sosabowski is behaving like an an idiot because he suffers from battle fatique.

    Or, the outline had already been decided - the day before - to abandon the two battalion assault crossing. Two companies (also decided the day before) of 4 Dorset would instead cross.
     
  20. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Well OK, but Sosabowski was also under stress, his Brigade was split up by both the original plan and by the recall of part of it during the flight in. He had seen the shambles that was the attempted river crossing the night before, so may well have been more passionate than the British were used to! Of course, the whole language thing probably didn't help, nor the fact that Sosabowski was probably pointing out some unwelcome facts.

    Cheers,

    Tom
     
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