Incoming V-1

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by Gage, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Those are fantastic images lads, it must have been really terrifying to have had to endure those things flying over and not knowing where it was going to fall.
     
  2. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  3. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Have just been sent some pictures of ww2 from my Uncle Rob and was really interested in this picture of a spitfire tipping off a V1 rocket .


    Spitfire "tipping-off" a V1. If you've never heard of this insane tactic .......

    At first V1's were shot down by gunfire. Optimum range was inside 200yds, which was marginal for survival. Many planes were damaged and quite a few pilots killed. Basically at such high speed and low altitude a plane had to fly though the explosion and hope.

    With the high risk of being blown up some of the best pilots started tipping the V1's wing, because of damage to wing tips they later developed a tactic of disrupting the aitflow by placing their wing very close to the V1's wing, causing it to topple.

    Not every pilot did this. At night this was not possible, the flame from the V1 blinded the pilot to everything else, though some Mossie pilots flew past closely in front of the V1, again causing it to topple. The thought of doing this at 450mph, 4,000 feet above the ground, at night and being blinded gives me the willies.
     

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  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    hello Michael
    if you can get a copy of Doodlebugs and Rockets: Battle of the Flying Bombs by Bob Ogley from 83p on Amazon.A bit of detail in there.
     
  5. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    hello Michael
    if you can get a copy of Doodlebugs and Rockets: Battle of the Flying Bombs by Bob Ogley from 83p on Amazon.A bit of detail in there.

    Cheers Clive for the heads up on the book,i bet it took some doing that trying to flip a rocket brave fellows indeed.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Here's those pics on the IWM site.
    Interesting captions.
    [​IMG]

    Surface to Surface: Strategic: An Supermarine Spitfire of the RAF edging into position in order to tip the wing of a V1 flying bomb to alter its course.

    Photograph taken from the ground by an amateur photographer and passed to the Air Ministry.


    [​IMG]

    Seen in silhouette, a Supermarine Spitfire manoeuvres alongside a flying bomb in an attempt to deflect it from its target.

    Photograph taken by Mr Walton, an amateur photographer near Crowborough.
     
  7. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Hi Owen some good digging there cheers
     
  8. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Actually, the siutation was the other way round; tipping had major disadvantages, and VERY rapidly was officially frowned on. As I posted elsewhere recently -

    It was safer for the pilot...but it was indeed very rare. The technique didn't actually involve contact, but approaching to within 6 inches or so, so that the airflow over interceptor's wingtip tipped up the V-1.

    Gun interception was FAR more common - according to Wiki the "victory" count for these are - Mosquito (623 victories), Spitfire XIV (303), and Mustang (232), and all other types combined 158.

    There were many factors that made EITHER tactic damgerous;

    1/ their average speed was ~350mph at an altitude of 3-4,00 feet...therefore very fast and quite low; chasing them meant aircraft had to make at least that speed at low levels.

    2/ they had to carry enough firepower to explode the V-1...and MGs had a lot of trouble. Cannonfire was better...but required skill as a cannon burst ahead of a V-1 could explode it much closer to the pursuing aircraft!

    3/ Obviously - they exploded with a LARGE amount of shrapnel! This put the pursuing aircraft at great risk anyway. The Mosquito, with its high speed, as you can see from the figures was the best interceptor - but it's radiators in the leading edges of the wings inboard of each engine were very vulnerable to shrapnel damage.

    But of course the best defence was AA fire once the proximity VT fuse and new of centimetric, 3 gigahertz frequency gun-laying radars based on the cavity magnetron, and Bell's new predictor fire-control system based on an analog computer all arrived...


    Seventeen percent of all flying bombs entering the coastal 'gun belt' were destroyed by guns in their first week on the coast. This rose to 60% by 23 August and 74% in the last week of the month, when on one day 82% were shot down. The rate improved from one V-1 destroyed for every 2,500 shells fired initially, to one for every 100
    .

    Compared to those figures above for gun kills, possibly less than two dozen V-1s were ever claimed as tipped "kills" :mellow:

    And - apart from anything else....

    It was frowned upon because it STILL blew up on the ground somewhere that way...!
     
  9. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Tipping the wing was a well known tactic as opposed to dispatching the flying bomb from the behind and run the risk of oncoming debris.However as stated the flying bomb would still be delivered albeit there was the chance that the bomb would fall in less densely populated areas.

    The real breakthrough came when it was decided by Sandys,Chairman of the Crossbow Committee to form an AA screen as the first line of defence on the Kent coastal strip.Gunnery crews were quickly up the learning curve and it became the best form of protection for London with Fighter Command picking up the those that got through the screen.

    As an aside.Despite Bomber Command offenses against the V1 sites,it did not stop 10.500 V1 bombs being launched against the British Isles with London the principal target.2400 V1s evaded interception causing 1.5 million homes to be destroyed or damaged and 6200 dead with 18000 seriously injuried.the weapon was not conclusive, it had little bearing on the progress of the liberation of Western Europe.However there is a line of thought that Hitler had chosen the wrong target in London,had he chosen the south coast ports,it might have adversely effected the vital supply lines to the continent.But Hitler, being Hitler chose vengeance rather than strategy in seeking out revenge for Bomber Command's offensives against the German heartland.
     
  10. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    During the invasion of Normandy this occurred:

    The Doodle Bug.
    On its way back.
    I know it's silly what we remember, some things that really are of no consequence at all, but for some reason we recall everything about that incident, in this case, because it was so bizarre.

    We were on high ground to the North of the City of Caen, That battle scared area I have always looked on as the ‘Killing Ground’ This was the high ground in front of Caen, here where we could look out over the channel, the site was incredible, I must admit to just standing looking at the thousands of ships of every description, spread as far as the eye could see, it looked as though it would be possible to walk back to England from ship to ship. I still have a clear picture of that view.

    What we saw next was a bit of pure theatre, a Buzz bomb, Doodle bug! came throbbing overhead, heading straight for England. Half the battle field stopped what they were doing (both German and Allies) to watch this bit of entertainment, no one fired at it, and as it approached the coast a spitfire dived on it at high speed and tipped its wing, loud cheers from the thousands of watchers, it then chugged steadily away, back where it came from, on it's return trip, all of our anti aircraft guns started firing at it. Now, why for heavens sake? Bizarre!

    There must have been many thousands of Normandt Vets men that witnessed this little bit of flying genius.
    Sapper
     
  11. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    During the invasion of Normandy this occurred:

    The Doodle Bug.
    On its way back.
    I know it's silly what we remember, some things that really are of no consequence at all, but for some reason we recall everything about that incident, in this case, because it was so bizarre.

    We were on high ground to the North of the City of Caen, That battle scared area I have always looked on as the ‘Killing Ground’ This was the high ground in front of Caen, here where we could look out over the channel, the site was incredible, I must admit to just standing looking at the thousands of ships of every description, spread as far as the eye could see, it looked as though it would be possible to walk back to England from ship to ship. I still have a clear picture of that view.

    What we saw next was a bit of pure theatre, a Buzz bomb, Doodle bug! came throbbing overhead, heading straight for England. Half the battle field stopped what they were doing (both German and Allies) to watch this bit of entertainment, no one fired at it, and as it approached the coast a spitfire dived on it at high speed and tipped its wing, loud cheers from the thousands of watchers, it then chugged steadily away, back where it came from, on it's return trip, all of our anti aircraft guns started firing at it. Now, why for heavens sake? Bizarre!

    There must have been many thousands of Normandt Vets men that witnessed this little bit of flying genius.
    Sapper
    Brian,

    It is even more Bizarre, when you read that the V1's usually lost complete control when tipped by the wing pressure created by the attacking planes wing.

    I wonder where the one you witnessed landed?

    Regards
    Tom
     
  12. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Hi Smudg.
    The thing about that manoeuvre was the straight line that it took heading back the way it came. Even dafter was the AA opening up on it as it was going back over enemy lines. There must be many thousands of Vets that watched that take place...
     
  13. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Thanks Sapper it's great to read your story of your first hand experience for me it was really worth posting up this thread thanks Sapper you made my day.

    Regards Michael.
     
  14. Warlord

    Warlord Veteran wannabe

    Even though you lot already stated that this tactic wasn't exactly the most employed, was there a "preferred" fighter for the job? Or was it a matter of using what you had at hand when the time came?
     
  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I have read that the preferred fighter to intercept and shoot down the V1 was the 4 Canon Hawker Tempest.

    This had both the speed and the armament to shoot them down.

    Like you say, any suitable fighter would have been employed as needs must.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  16. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thought you might like to see this photo of a Tempest that was later lost whilst chasing a V1.
    [​IMG]

    Hawker Tempest Mark Vs of No. 3 Squadron RAF parked at Newchurch Advanced Landing Ground, Kent. The nearest aircraft, JN765 'JF-K', was lost on 1 July 1944 when it dived into the ground near Winchelsea, Sussex, after the pilot lost control in a cloud while chasing a Fiesler Fi 103 flying-bomb (V1).
     
  17. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Owen,

    The problem with extremely powerful single engined planes is the large amount of torque created by the engine and thus making control a lot harder.

    With low cloud it would be difficult to recover control, hence the crash.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  18. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek

    [​IMG]
    Repeated again as this is one of the best photos I've seen with a V-1 involved.
     
    Deacs likes this.
  19. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thought I'd merge 2 threads as they are fairly similar in content are both really interesting.
    Good stuff chaps, makes a nice change for me to read this air war stuff.
    Be a good place to post this photo of a Mossie damaged by the explosion of a flying bomb it had just shot up.


    [​IMG]

    De Havilland Mosquito FB Mark VI, HX811 'TH-K' of No. 418 Squadron RCAF, in a blister hangar at Holmesley South, Hampshire, after suffering fire damage following the explosion of a flying bomb which HX811's crew shot down during a 'Diver' patrol.
     
  20. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Another picture of a V1.
     

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