Indian Type Cap GS - "A useless monstrosity"?

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by PackRat, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. PackRat

    PackRat Well-Known Member

    Does anyone have any information on this headgear (possibly issued in Burma from early 1945?) and why it seems to have been so disliked? Why was 'Hat, Felt Gurkha' (is this same thing as the bush or slouch hat, where one side of the brim is bent upwards?) preferred? I've been trying to search up images of the two with little luck.

    I've been reading some communications included in the 36 Division HQ 'G' 1945 War Diary which appear to have been sent from the quartermaster's office to someone further up the supply chain. They're a strange and interesting inclusion, very informal in tone and getting seriously heated in places - one includes the magnificent line "The last sub-para of your (B).1. on page 2 is BALLS and we all know it even if you don't."

    One item mentioned is this:

    INDIAN TYPE CAP GS
    We have just received a sample of this. It really is a useless monstrosity! We have written a letter to ALFSEA protesting against it, but I don't think we shall get any change out of them. Anyway, in the meantime, the more felt Gurkha you can lay in for us the better.


    And the next week:

    HATS FELT GURKHA
    I'm glad that TRUSS is laying in all the hats Felt Gurkha he can get hold of.
    The G.O.C. takes an extremely poor view of the Indian Type Cap G.S. and so the more Hats Felt Gurkha that TRUSS can lay in the better.


    What was the Indian GS Cap and why was it a 'monstrosity'?

    Just in case anyone is interested in more excerpts from the letters, here are a few I've transcribed:

    36 DIV A/Q LIAISON LETTER No. 13 - 2nd February 1945

    29 Bde was on 1/2 sugar ration from 26-29 Jan, both dates inclusive. I hope this question of sugar shortage will NOT arise again. There is no need to stress to you the importance to the man of his daily sugar ration. Without it he cannot make tea and his whole world crumbles!

    36 DIV A/Q LIAISON LETTER No. 14 - 4th February 1945

    THOMPSON SUB-MACHINE GUNS
    ALFSEA have informed us that it has been decided to cease manufacture of .45 amn for TSMGs. This will eventually entail the replacement of all TSMGs by CMS (Sten).
    Accordingly, provision action for this mass replacement will now have to be considered. Ernest Savage is dealing with this.
    What we do NOT know is how much you have in the way of stocks of .45 amn, to enable us to work out by approximately what date the change over will have to be completed. I'd be most grateful if you could let me have this information.


    36 DIV A/Q LIAISON LETTER No. 15 - 9th February 1945

    We had a bad accident with a 2" Mortar HE premature recently.Unfortunately, the unit concerned cannot say when they received this particular round and whether it was dropped or landed. I know that serviceable and U/S [unserviceable] 2" and 3" Mor amn now at KATHA has been muddled up and it is impossible to tell by outward inspection whether or not fuzes have become armed through incorrect [air] dropping. I have had to order that NO more of the KATHA 2 " and 3" Mor amn will be brought fwd, as we cannot afford any further accidents.

    426 PIAT FUZES
    Another essential item. As I've already told you, the 425 fuze is useless against the type of Jap bunker we are now meeting. Thank you for your prompt action in jogging ALFSEA over this. We really do want them and in a hurry too, and I'd be very grateful if you'd keep worrying ALFSEA until they do produce them.

    36 DIV A/Q LIAISON LETTER No. 17 - [undated - early March 1945]

    SHROUDS FOR EXHUMED BODIES
    43 Graves Registration Unit, SAHMAW, has signalled us as follows:
    "Require two hundred parachutes for wrapping bodies your formation (.) No repeat no blankets available (.) please forward by plane to SAHMAW"
    We have NO spare parachutes, and in any case I am not prepared at the present juncture to high-jack a plane especially to take them back. Can you help?

    ORD PRIORITY 1 DEMANDS
    I have become increasingly worried over a number of Priority 1 demands which are still unfulfilled.
    I know you are doing all you can to accelerate provision, but this is small consolation to the chaps on the spot who are short of these operationally urgent items!
    I presume that as these are not available within your resources, you have jerked ALFSEA. If you think that a signal to them from us would expedite matters in any way, I will gladly send one. I'm sure George DEMETRIADI would take action, too, if you let him know.
     
  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

    First thing first, the Indian Cap, GS was their Jungle Green drill(?) version of the British Cap, GS in serge. Both were essentially a sewn beret. It didn't have a great reputation in the British Army but was presumably much cheaper to make than a proper beret.

    Hats, Felt, Gurkha offer much better protection from sun and rain which would explain their popularity. Although my go-to reference has let me down on this, I think I'm right in saying that the HFG is a different beast to the slouch/bush hats as the HFG is a more rigid brim that isn't made to be turned up.
     
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  3. idler

    idler GeneralList

  4. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

  5. PackRat

    PackRat Well-Known Member

    Thanks Idler, I couldn't find a picture but I had read a description of them 'looking like cowpats' and now I see what they mean! Not surprised 36 Division wasn't keen to move to them after the more useful (and dapper) brimmed hat.

    I'm getting a bit confused on the terminology though. 36 Div HQ Diary talks about Hats, Felt, Gurkha. Every pic I've seen of men from 36 Div (including one of my grandad on repatriation leave in September 1945) has the style of hat where the left side of the brim is folded up, usually with the 36 Div patch fixed on the underside, like this picture:

    01.jpg

    This one is of Pte J George (6 SWB, 72 Bde, 36 Div) in November 1944 according to the IWM caption. He's the only man I've seen not wearing the divisional flash on the folded up bit, but the style is again a big brim folded up on the left, and in this close-up the material certainly looks like felt:

    13.jpg

    Should that be more properly called a slouch/bush hat? That's what I'd always thought but this 36 Div diary reference has thrown me.

    Confusingly though... in pics of actual Gurkhas they generally seem to be wearing a different style of hat, with the smaller stiff brim that doesn't look like it would turn up. This pic (titled 'Major General 'Pete' Rees GOC 19th Indian Division entering Fort Dufferin on 19 March 1945') has the two types side by side. Actual Gurkha regiments seemed to issue the one on the left, but 36 Div were wearing the one on the right and officially calling it a 'Gurkha' hat.

    hats.jpg
     
  6. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Tul Bahadur Pun VC showing the double-thickness rigid brim of the HFG: TulBahadurPunVC.jpg

    I don't know if there was a difference between slouch and bush hats - still ferreting around on that one.
     
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  7. SMLE

    SMLE Junior Member

    Hello Pack Rat,

    I would say that the hats referred to as 'Hats Felt Gurkha' that they are requesting are definitely the thicker brimmed Gurkha hats you have pictured. I would be very surprised if you got bush/slouch hats if you ordered them, unless this is some strange misnomer that existed in the Army supply system because the two hats are, as you say, not the same.

    Perhaps later in the war they discovered a preference for the Gurkha style hat over the bush hat and ordered them. My theory, with some personal experience of the military supply chain, however would be that the bush hats were discontinued, replaced by the GS cap, and instructions given that no more bush hats were to be issued. However the Gurkha style hat was still available as it was required to be issued to Gurkha units. So I think it was a work around, "we can't get exactly what we want but something similar is still available so we'll get as many of them while we can rather than the awful thing we are supposed to be ordering". The reason I don't think you have found any pictures of them wearing the Gurkha hat is probably because this is at the end of the war when the GS cap came in and they were only issuing Gurkha hats as required as an unofficial practice to replace bush hats so for most of the war almost everyone will have been wearing bush hats.

    As far as I know Bush and Slouch Hats are the same thing with slouch being the more informal and bush the official name.

    Here is a pic of an Australian made one I own.

    Slouch 2 800.jpg
     
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  8. PackRat

    PackRat Well-Known Member

    I think you might be onto something there, SMLE.

    In the photo I posted above of the men pushing the Dodge, they all seem to be wearing the bush hat. The caption for that one is:
    Men of the 36th Infantry Division struggle to push a Dodge weapons carrier through the monsoon mud on the road to Mandalay, February 1945. (IWM SE 1943)

    In this photo, same Division same month if the IWM captioner has it right, it looks like the driver has a GS cap and one or more of those hats might be Gurkha rather than bush hats (I'm finding it hard to tell).
    Men of the 36th Infantry Division push a CMP truck up a muddy slope on the road to Mandalay, February 1945. (IWM SE 1945)

    06.jpg

    Perhaps it was indeed the case that bush hats were no longer available and the division was ordering Gurkha hats as the closest replacement. There was one Gurkha battalion in the division so they could justify it 'officially' I suppose.

    Here's a detail of the hat my grandfather had when he got back to the UK in September 1945 so I know he managed to hang on to his bush-style one until the end, and I also know that he was not best pleased when his mother threw it away!

    36 Div Hat.jpg
     
  9. PackRat

    PackRat Well-Known Member

    A quick question on the bush hat, SMLE. Can both sides be folded up and held in place with some sort of press-stud? Or is it just the one side? The men of 36 Division generally seemed to attach their divisional flash on the underside so it was displayed when folded up - was this common or was it more usual to sew it on like your Australian hat?
     
  10. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    hat.jpg

    We may be barking up the wrong tree if we think that the disliked head gear referred to in the memo is the slouch hat/bush hat. I think that the Indian cap G.S. may have been the one being issued to liberated prisoners of war at Pegu in May 1945 as in this photograph from the IWM.

    INDIAN TYPE CAP GS
    We have just received a sample of this. It really is a useless monstrosity! We have written a letter to ALFSEA protesting against it, but I don't think we shall get any change out of them. Anyway, in the meantime, the more felt Gurkha you can lay in for us the better.

    The way that I read the memo is that slouch hats are no longer available and that Indian caps G.S, are being issued instead; therefore getting as many Gurkha issue hats as possible would be a good thing. Gurkha hats are different from Slouch hats as they are double skinned and have the top section sewn closed. There was also a floppy jungle hat that was beginning to be issued at this time but I do not know if it was referred to as an Indian cap G.S.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  11. SMLE

    SMLE Junior Member

    Hello High Wood. I think we agree with you.

    The Bush hat is what has been issued in the past and is preferred but seems to be no longer available. So the division is getting in as many Gurkha hats as possible in preference to the GS which does seem to be the beret type headgear being issued in your picture and which is the new official headgear.
     
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  12. idler

    idler GeneralList

    It's worth remembering that Gunner Graham often wore the British Cap GS...

    maxresdefault.jpg

    I do wonder where BSM Williams acquired his beret - khaki was only authorised for Motor Battalions and, initially, the Recce Corps.
     
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  13. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    BBC wardrobe department? Sorry....just couldn't resist. :)
     
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  14. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Apologies, I was clearly confused by the number of photographs of slouch hats that had been posted rather than pictures of G.S. Caps.
     
  15. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Just a snippet: the logic behind pinning up the left hand side of the brim of the bush/slouch hat was to get it out of the way of a rifle carried at the slope!

    One could infer that Gurkhas and Garhwalis didn't need to raise their brims because, as Riflemen, they would have carried their rifles at the trail.
     
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