Intelligence in the Arctic: Bletchley Park, PQ17 and wider

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by davidbfpo, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    A podcast from Bletchley Park (1h 20m) and the summary explains:
    Link: Bletchley Park / E140 - Intelligence in the Arctic

    There are a few threads on the Convoy PQ17, notably after the Clarkson documentary being shown in 2014. See: BBC2 tonight Clarkson on Convoy PQ17

    On the wider aspects I once counted 170 on the Arctic Convoys after a quick search. Wiki has its critics, that aside it does offer a concise, starting point: Arctic convoys of World War II - Wikipedia
     
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  2. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    It is a long time since I learnt about this campaign and the podcast provided a lot of information. Not in priority order:

    1. Thirty seven merchant ships were sunk by the Luftwaffe, eighteen by torpedoes (up till 1943, when those Luftwaffe squadrons were redeployed to other places), forty-one by U-Boats (eighteen were stragglers) and three by surface ships.
    2. Eleven of the thirty four were sunk on PQ17
    3. The Germans lost forty one U-Boats, with nearly a 100% death rate
    4. The two Luftwaffe torpedo squadrons were trained by the Italians in Italy and then sent north in 1942 (Podcast 32-36m refers to this)
    5. 1942 was the year in which the Germans had their most successes (in 1941 no merchant ships were sunk, nor in 1944)
    6. SIS provided coast watchers, on three month long tours, at various points on the Norwegian coast and last year there was new book on them
    7. In 1942 the RN deployed escort carriers, with error Spitfires and error Gladiators (dropping depth charges); the earlier use of catapult ships had limited successes (it was implied the survival rate of the pilots was not high)
    8. The German planning for PQ17 was over telephone lines via Sweden and the Swedes helped by handing over intercepts (unclear if they broke the encryption)
    9. The Arctic convoys 1941-1945 were a fraction of the number of transatlantic convoys. There were forty outbound convoys and thirty-five returning, almost one per month. Only nine convoys suffered losses. The RN and merchant shipping losses were so heavy Churchill was advised and directed for political reasons they would continue.(Podcast 1100-1440 refers to this).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2022
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  3. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    Not sure I follow your point 7.

    There was only one escort carrier deployed to escort a Russia bound convoy in 1942. That was HMS Avenger supporting PQ18/QP14 in Sept. She was carrying Swordfish and Sea Hurricanes.
    A History of H.M.S. AVENGER

    None of the escort carriers in 1942 carried Seafires (navalised Spitfires) and the (Sea) Gladiator had been retired from front line service for a year or more.

    As for point 9, the Russian convoys only continued for so long as the Home Fleet had resources to cover them. So they were halted for a couple of months after PQ17 while new tactics were worked out. The next halt was Sept-Nov 1942 during Operation Torch. Then Mar-Oct 1943 due to operations in the Med. Then May -Aug 1944 for the Normandy invasion.
     
  4. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Ewen,

    I rely on what the speaker stated, if I get a chance to listen again today I will provide you the timing. Caveat for the speaker his focus was Sigint history, but providing the context took up much of the podcast.
     
  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Ewen,

    My error in 7 on listening. The aircraft were Hurricanes and Swordfish and the speaker refers to escort carriers use from the end of 1942. He talks about this 36.44-37.20 and 38.28-38.57.

    I have added a few corrections and updates in Post 2.
     

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