Inventory / Vehicles assigned to regiments

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by sri_130, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    Is there an inventory of what each regiment would have been assigned, in terms of vehicles?
    In particular, in the run up to D-day or even manifesto's of the LST's that took them over as another idea?

    When searching information about the regiments I'm interested in (Guards armoured, artillery) it's not the type of stuff that would be in a war diary. Where should I direct my search, if a possible inventory did exist?
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    2 Armd IG have a pre-embarkation list, May 44 WD; vehicles with assigned personnel.
     
  3. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    In the more general case than pre-embarkation, on the one hand there were War Establishment documents which defined what a unit was entitled to have. I.e. The war establishment would define a certain set of vehicles, guns, and men, and if a unit was organized per that war establishment that was what they were entitled to have. There was not a unique war establishment for every regiment. Hope that makes sense.

    And a unit would file IIRC "vehicle returns" which would report/record what they had at the time.
     
  4. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    I've read the WE's and as you say, they are what a unit should have had as a broad brush, but I'm wondering if there is more specific inventory of information that defines what each unit did have? and how detailed that might go. For example, a 15cwt truck with XXX serial XXX frame number etc, delivered to the unit on XXXX for use of XXXX. I thought the pre-embarkation might be something to look into, but not sure how specific that might be or where to start.

    Where would 'vehicle returns' be found? Should I direct my searching to each of the regiments and their regimental archives if they have them?

    I could do with a quick lesson in how to conduct research!
     
  5. idler

    idler GeneralList

    The vast majority of admin paperwork has been lost to history, save for the exceptional bits that made it into the war diaries. Many formations have separate war diaries for their admin side - personnel and stores - but even they are unlikely to hold the day-to-day bumf.
     
  6. sri_130

    sri_130 Active Member

    Do you have a copy? Be interested to see how it is structured and to what depth
     
  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I transcribed it on this link
    2nd Armoured Battalion Irish Guards: Pre-embarkation List, May 1944

    eg

    HQ Squadron
    Serial: 36
    Vehicle No: 5254394
    Type of Vehicle: 15 Cwt ( B 3), Armr

    10552442 Lance-Corporal WILSON W, Armr
    10533653 Lance-Serjeant FOWLER F, Armr
    14535517 Craftsman HUMPHREY A, Armr
    2718046 Guardsman DALY M, Eqpt Rpr

    Total Officer:
    Total Other Ranks: 4
     
  8. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    As Idler stated most has been lost to history.

    Most records relating to individual WW2 armoured vehicles - the equivalent of the vehicle V5C or Log Book - were held at Bovington in the case of Commonwealth vehicles but these were mostly disposed in the 1960s as surplus to requirements. Any armoured vehicle that survived the War and that still existed in 1949 was given a ZR number in place of the former T number and those records still exist at Bovington as the so-called Key Cards; sounds good but the Key Cards only contain the original T number, the ZR number, a few other very basic details and where it was (generally in 1949) but not who (Regiment) it was with. This is great if you are researching a particular vehicle - which I am - but not otherwise.

    The War diaries are very hit and miss: most don't contain any such information and Vehicle Returns only had to stipulate the numbers of each type of vehicle at specified intervals and not their individual details - think about it, there was a War on and people at the Sharp End had more pressing things to do!

    Having said that, there are various nuggets out there albeit exceptionally difficult to find. The best source is the Troop Sergeants Roll Book which was supposed to contain details of the crew of each vehicle, the vehicle T number and other details such as Next of Kin. I've seen several of these (24th Lancers) but they were not always completed properly and, like most 'note books' I guess were disposed by the Sergeant when he no longer needed it. As a personal note, I'm extremely lucky to have a scan of my fathers Troop Sergeants Roll Book showing the details I've mentioned above. The Roll Books were not 'official' documents so, unless someone has a big box of old books out there.......

    That leaves one potential option; the records held by the so-called Vehicle Parks. These were exactly what it 'says on the tin'. I've never got around to finding whether such records (War Diary? Etc etc?) still exist and therefore whether they would contain the relevant information but it could be a start and, to many people - you know who you are - would be like manna from Heaven. That information would only say, for example, T152248 was issued to 24th Lancers on such and such a date but it wouldn't (?) say to which Squadron, or Troop etc (Note: apart from the date, I know the Sherman M4A2 T152248 tank was issued to 24L because it was my dad's tank. How do I know that?....my late dad told me the number and that was confirmed when, many many years later, I contacted his Troop Sergeant Harry Dews who still happened to have his properly filled out Troop Roll Book!).

    Good luck. You will need lots of it but 'never say never'.
     

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