Italian Campaign - 75th Anniversary

Discussion in 'Italy' started by bexley84, May 16, 2019.

  1. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Please you liked my website, Derrick. And so pleased, Frank, that you made it to the site of the incident with Sheena.

    The train should never have been on the bridge. The sirens went whilst it was stationary in Orvieto station (testimony of the stationmaster) but the Germans insisted that it left.

    Yesterday evening Italian televison news gave a fair bit of space to the ceremony at the Polish Cemetery at Cassino as the President of Italy was there.

    He repeated the usual story, that the Allies were in Italy to 'liberate the Italians from Nazism and Fascism'. I wouldn't quite put it like that. What do you all think?

    Vitellino
     
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  2. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    I was attached to an Italian Army unit as a Young Officer and they all swore blond that the war started on 8 Sep 43. Poppycock.

    I find it fascinating how the Italian political elite like to airbrush out 22 years of Mussolini.

    I for one am not fooled. The Italians paid a terrible price for appointing Mussolini.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    The most appropriate response, I believe, would be "Whatever gets you through the night."
     
  4. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    I like both these comments....keep them coming in!
     
  5. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    This thread lead me this morning to reading a paper about the Italian army in WW2. One thing that struck me was this:

    "One of the most prevalent historiographical tropes was that the policies implemented by the Fascist government were principally responsible for Italy’s military downfall. In the years following the war, central figures in the Italian military establishment sought to shape the narrative surrounding the calamitous war years. In an attempt to defend their legacies, honour, and self-interest, they sought to place the lion’s share of the blame on a man few would publicly defend: Mussolini."

    https://scholar.uwindsor.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1054&context=gljuh

    In that context it is understandable why the modern Italian army might want to start tracking things from 1943 onwards rather than owning the military errors of their predecessors. Not to mention the gigantic political issue.

    Aside from that, no, I wouldn't put it like "liberate the Italians from Nazism and Fascism" but I don't think I really know enough to comment. How much of the Italian population actually did support Fascism and the war? Was there actually a perception of the Fascist government ruling over an oppressed people?
     
  6. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Chris.

    I recommend Hitler's Italian Allies by Knox. It is a giggle a minute. All three General Staffs were appalling and their procurement set up was a joke.

    Worth a read.

    F
     
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  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

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  8. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Derrick,

    in daylight which was taken last year.
    rsz_img_0267.jpg
    rsz_img_0266.jpg

    Will dig out some more when I've got time.

    Regards
    Stu.
     
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  9. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Now posting a few random photos from last week...

    The first group include familiar views up from the Liri Valley, and a reminder of one of my Dad's allies, albeit occasionally a reluctant one, on his nightly trek across the Rapido valley and up to the top of Monte Castellone during Apr '44

    IMG_9733.JPG IMG_9670.JPG IMG_0203.JPG IMG_9732.JPG
     
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  10. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Next group include a view towards San Angelo in Theodice, where my Dad and his friends were in defensive positions for 4 days during March '44, the Congo bridge crossing that they took over the Gari river on 15th May, the Piopetto stream that got in the way when they actually crossed the river and the area near Point 86, close to the Pignatoro to Cassino road, where my father helped to bury his CO, Ion Goff, on the afternoon of 15th May:

    IMG_0355.PNG IMG_9751.JPG IMG_9752.JPG IMG_0210.JPG IMG_9744.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  11. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    A couple of photos in connection with George Barrick who we chatted with at the CWGC cemetery ...along with our travel companions David and Dwayne Marshall from Omagh, who were tracing the area where their uncle/great uncle was killed near Castel di Sangro in Dec'43.

    IMG_0353.PNG IMG_9750.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  12. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    IMG_9755.JPG IMG_9757.JPG

    Taken near to Casa Sinagoga the route my Dad's mates took to break the Gustav Line on the morning of 16th May '44:

    IMG_9756.JPG IMG_0354.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  13. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Some from the village of Caira - Oscar Wilde and all - and the German cemetery nearby and the good view up from there to Monte Castellone and then looking down onto Castellone/towards both the Rapido/Liri valley from the Terelle to Villa San Lucia road:

    IMG_9674.JPG IMG_9681.JPG IMG_9687.JPG IMG_9688.JPG IMG_9692.JPG IMG_9698.JPG IMG_9699.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  14. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    A few here from the abbey area and the Polish cemetery nearby and along to Albaneta farm and the area where the tank has been left -

    IMG_9703.JPG IMG_9706.JPG IMG_9708.JPG IMG_9711.JPG IMG_0214.JPG IMG_0215.JPG IMG_0219.JPG IMG_0221.JPG IMG_0222.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  15. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    And lastly some from across the Liri - to the Ceprano area to Ripi - where my father and his friends "finished" the campaign on 31st May '44.. thence to Trasimeno/Spaduro/Senio/Argenta.... NB: no chickens were harmed during our filming..

    IMG_0057.JPG IMG_0056.JPG IMG_0054.JPG IMG_0053.JPG
     
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  16. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Richard.

    Superb.

    upload_2019-5-25_15-38-59.png

    Where exactly is this on the ground? I would like to go and see it for myself.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  17. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    On the Terelle to Villa san Lucia road behind Monte Castellone.
     
  18. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    I will find it. Much ta.

    F
     
  19. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Richard.

    I have followed Google from Terelle to Santa Lucia but not found it.

    upload_2019-5-26_16-19-11.png

    Would you mind pinpointing it to me on this map?

    Regards

    Frank
     
  20. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    I can't pinpoint exactly but if you take the road turn off from the outskirts of Terelle to Villa san Lucia it's on the right hand side..impossible to miss.. I was driving and found it quite easily. Damiano drove me up there after a late night pizza in 2014 so roughly knew the area.

    Clinton W. Thomas nel 74° anniversario della sua scomparsa
     

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