Italian POW Camp PG54 Fara-in-Sabine

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by 107 Bty 27 LAA Regt, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. If any one is interested I have copies of PRO File WO 32/18500 Reports on visits by International Red Cross to Camp PG54 PM 3300 Fara-in-Sabina

    Chris
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Junior Member

    Hello Chris,

    Today my mother has read a postcard out to me from my grandad.

    It was sent by him whilst he was a prisoner of war in the above camp. We have been waiting a long time to retrieve the postcard from another relative and it is the first time my mother has seen it.

    Joseph Marks was captured at Tobruk serving with the Worcesters.

    I immediately googled the camp number and your post came up.

    I would greatly appreciate it if I could have a copy of the document you mention. Any information on the camp, even photos of it, or its location will help me understand (in a very small way) how and where he spent part of his captivity.

    I never met Grandad Marks (he died and my nan re-married) and he has always been an interesting figure in my family tree.

    Regards

    Alan Woodcock
     
  3. Hi Alan

    I have recently started putting everything I have on to a website at Camp PG 54 - Fara Sabina its been off to a rather slow start due to a couple of other urgent projects but I should now have some more time to add some more updates shortly. The Map page contains some photos, plus the gallery of some POW's.

    I will send you document with some more information and copies of the red cross reports.

    If you have details you would like to share for the website that would be fantastic.

    Regards

    Chris
     
  4. oldtyke

    oldtyke Junior Member

    If any one is interested I have copies of PRO File WO 32/18500 Reports on visits by International Red Cross to Camp PG54 PM 3300 Fara-in-Sabina

    Chris
    Yes I am very interested in camp 53 as my Uncle James King
    Rank - SPR 2075136 RE
    P.of W.Camp -53 SETTORE No 1
    PM3300 ITALY
    4.6.1943.

    He was imprisoned there I am trying to find out as much as possible.
    Regards Arthur South Australia
    Contact oldtyke.fh@gmail.com
     
  5. Yes I am very interested in camp 53 as my Uncle James King
    Rank - SPR 2075136 RE
    P.of W.Camp -53 SETTORE No 1
    PM3300 ITALY
    4.6.1943.

    He was imprisoned there I am trying to find out as much as possible.
    Regards Arthur South Australia
    Contact oldtyke.fh@gmail.com

    Arthur

    I am afraid that your uncle was in Camp PG 53 and that I do not have information about this camp, good luck with your search.

    Chris
     
  6. Mattyboy

    Mattyboy Junior Member

    I have several pieces of Air Mail and Prisoner Of War Post from L/Cpl William Dickens 2133621. They are dated early 1942. L/Cpl Dickens was my paternal grandmother's brother in law, from memory he was alleged to have fallen at Tobruk but there was some doubt over this. His letters state he was in Hut 17 of the 2nd Settore, Camp 54 PM3300. I am still working on which regiment he was from.
     
  7. I have several pieces of Air Mail and Prisoner Of War Post from L/Cpl William Dickens 2133621. They are dated early 1942. L/Cpl Dickens was my paternal grandmother's brother in law, from memory he was alleged to have fallen at Tobruk but there was some doubt over this. His letters state he was in Hut 17 of the 2nd Settore, Camp 54 PM3300. I am still working on which regiment he was from.

    Hi Mattyboy

    Good to hear from you.

    It looks as though according to WO392/21 by August 1943 William Dickens was possibly at Camp PG 75 Bari Transit Camp. It was not uncommon for POW's to move camp, but there again the records were not always correct.

    WO392-21.jpg

    He was in the 296 Army Field Coy, Royal Engineers - taken from his entry on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. The 296 are listed as a unit captured at Tobruk on 21 June 1942 so it looks as though the story is correct. Your best bet would be to apply for his service records. He died after the Italian Armistice of September 1943 so may well have escaped from PG 75 after the armistace.

    Unfortunately I only have a plan of Compound No 1 at PG 54 but I believe they were very similar.

    Compound No 1 - June 1943.jpg

    Have a look at here for some more information about the Camp PG 54. Now that the dark evenings are upon us I hope to commit some more time to updating the website.If you are willing I'd be interested in adding any details you may have.

    Hope this is of some help.

    Chris
     
  8. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Just a little general information.

    When comparing Files the WO 32 Files appear to be duplicates of the Red Cross Reports in WO 224.

    In this case WO 224/121.
     
  9. Mattyboy

    Mattyboy Junior Member

    Chris,

    Many thanks for the info on L/Cpl William Dickens, it has filled in a lot of gaps. My main passion is Bomber Comand in WWII as my grandfather served in Lancasters out of Elsham Wolds and in going through the endless amounts of photos and letters my family has accumulated I am becoming more and more interested in the military history of the rest of my family that served.

    I have had a quick browse around the site I am more than happy to scan any of the letters and related items I have for you for use on your site.

    Thanks again

    Matty
     
  10. Mattyboy

    Mattyboy Junior Member

    Chris,

    Since you were kind enough to give me the information on L/Cpl Dickens regiment, I have been looking online and I can't find anything about it. If you could point me in the direction of any good resources or sites you use I would be most grateful.

    Thanks

    Matty
     
  11. Chris,

    Since you were kind enough to give me the information on L/Cpl Dickens regiment, I have been looking online and I can't find anything about it. If you could point me in the direction of any good resources or sites you use I would be most grateful.

    Thanks

    Matty

    Hi Matty

    I am away for a few days, if no one else has answered by the time I get back I will put some thoughts together for you.

    Regards

    Chris
     
  12. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Hi Alan,
    I have a 5251147 Pte J W Marks as a POW in PG 75 in August 1943 but like 90% of all POW in Italy he would have been in other Camps prior to this.

    May 1943 PG 75 had 1166 men in work detachments, one Road Making and the other 12 Agricultural Work.

    I also have the same man in Stalag 4C in April 1945 but with the rank of Pte he would have been in a work Camp attached to 4C.

    Brian



    Hello Chris,

    Today my mother has read a postcard out to me from my grandad.

    It was sent by him whilst he was a prisoner of war in the above camp. We have been waiting a long time to retrieve the postcard from another relative and it is the first time my mother has seen it.

    Joseph Marks was captured at Tobruk serving with the Worcesters.

    I immediately googled the camp number and your post came up.

    I would greatly appreciate it if I could have a copy of the document you mention. Any information on the camp, even photos of it, or its location will help me understand (in a very small way) how and where he spent part of his captivity.

    I never met Grandad Marks (he died and my nan re-married) and he has always been an interesting figure in my family tree.

    Regards

    Alan Woodcock
     
  13. Chris,

    Since you were kind enough to give me the information on L/Cpl Dickens regiment, I have been looking online and I can't find anything about it. If you could point me in the direction of any good resources or sites you use I would be most grateful.

    Thanks

    Matty

    Hi Matty

    Here is some information about 296 Field Coy for you:

    If you get the chance to get along to the National Archives at Kew you might like to take a look at the Company War Diaries:

    WO 166/3765 - Home Forces Oct 39 to Jun 40
    WO 173/73 & WO 173/74 - West Africa Aug to Dec 40
    WO 173/228 - West Africa Jan to May 41
    WO 169/1901 - Middle East July to Dec 41
    WO 169/5310 - Middle East Jan to May 42

    Wally Cook - Veteran from 296 Fld Coy looking for contact with comrades, click on the link to see a transcription of some of his diaries including the demolition work they undertook at Tobruk prior to their capture, may be worth your while contacting his niece on the email provided.

    I don't know too much about the Royal Engineers so it may be worth a visit/call to the Royal Engineers Museum.

    It may also be worth starting a new thread on here with the title Royal Engineers - Field Company, there are several people on here who can give you some much better information than I can.

    Finally it may be worth applying for his Service Record, if you send a copy of the CWGC page you shouldn't have to go through the next of kin process.

    Hopefully this is some use to you, good luck and keep us posted.

    Chris
     
  14. Kevin Baxter

    Kevin Baxter Junior Member

    Chris -
    I believe that you previously sent me some info on Camp 54 -- the list of POWs held there .
    Have you found any more information/documents etc ??

    Regards
    Kevin
     
  15. MEMORY

    MEMORY Member

    Hi there, I am wishing on a star here, I am looking for a Lcpl W A Holder, force no:237, Royal Natal Carbineers, taken at Tobruk, I think he may have been at Camp 54, then moved to Camp 68, I know he was at Camp 10. He is my dad and am trying to write his war memoirs, as he has passed on. Any info will be appreciated. Thanks a lot.
     
  16. John Stone

    John Stone New Member

    Hello There,

    I having just come across your posting made about six months ago. I am interested in Camp PG54 in Sabena as my father was captured in Tobruk and transferred to this camp. Eventually he was transferred to a camp in Germany not far from Berlin. I have visited the remains of this German camp and I am hoping to travel to the Sabina area just north of Rome to see if PG54 still exists or at worst find the exact location the camp used to stand on. I was wondering if you have found out any more about PG54. Any advice would be welcome

    John Stone
     
  17. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello John,

    The camp certainly does exist - it's been turned into a village called Borgo Santa Maria. I have just written a book about it - in Italian unfortunately - which I was asked to do by one of the local councillors who lives there.

    Two years ago a second monument was unveiled to the men who were held in the camp. The whole village turned out, I was guest speaker and I have a series of photos both of that visit and the other occasions when I've been there with relatives.

    Please send me a private message and if you do go I could probably arrange for you to be met and shown around.

    Regards,

    Vitellino fara sabina sketch.jpg
     
  18. Val P

    Val P Active Member


    Hi Vitellino

    Does a list of of POWs at Camp PG54 exist as I would really like to see if my Uncle was sent there after he was taken in June 1942.

    Many thanks
    Val
     
  19. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello Val,

    There are no lists for any of the individual Italian camps. There is a combined list for all the camps, produced by the International Red Cross in August 1943, which gives the name of the last camp a prisoner was recorded as having been in.

    Please give me you uncle's name and I will look for him on that list. What makes you think he might have been in PG 54?

    Best wishes,

    Vitellino
     
  20. Val P

    Val P Active Member


    Thank you for replying Vitellino, I'm very grateful! His name was : William Albert Loftus, known as Bill, Corporal 8th Battalion Royal Tank Regiment. He was reported missing on 1st June 1942, probably near the Gazala line, North Africa (he fought in Operation Crusader previously.
    He was reported missing with an Arthur R Gravener Lance Corporal 8th Bn RTR who died in a hospital in Caserta in January 194. I have no idea if they were captured together ie were in the same tank.
    Neither the family or I have any information on where he was taken other than the family story. He was in Italy, he said they treated him well and he got on well with one of the guards, he escaped and fought with the partisans before reaching Allied hands on 30th October 1944 and was hospitalised with Typhoid. He went on to live a full and happy life.

    The reason I'm wondering if he was in PG54 is John Mallen's story, he was in the 3rd Field Regiment Royal Artillery in combat with the German Afrika Corps in June 1942. (His story is on here) but he says of his esape "There was me and 7 others. There was Jack Royal who was from Worksop, 'Smudger' Smith - Smudger was a nickname of course, W. Batchelor who came from Yorkshire somewhere, Cliff Connor who cam from Skelton and Bill whose name I can't recollect. Lastly there was Ken Barnes who was from Colchester area."

    I know it's a very long shot but I wondered if Bill might be my Uncle. Either way any hint of where he might of been would be fantastic. The POW records does not show his camp, see attached.

    Anything you can add to his story would be amazing, thank you.

    Val
     

    Attached Files:

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