Kummersdorf Weapons Range

Discussion in 'Germany' started by Gerard, Nov 28, 2008.

  1. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Just south of Berlin the Kunmmersdorf Ranges were used for the testing of the Heer's weapons especially artillery. During the 30's Walter Dormberger commenced the Army's testing of Rockets before being moved under Luftwaffe supervision and on to the research facility at Peenemunde.

    Heres a link to a pre-war chronology of the Proving Grounds:

    Kummersdorf

    It should also be noted that fierce fighting took place at the proving grounds as the 9th Army attempted to break out of the Halbe Pocket towards the 12th Army. :mellow:
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I have a splendid book by a Wolfgang Fleischer on the Wehrmacht proving grounds at Kummersdorf -
    Excellent and profusely illustrated guide to the development of the site from the 19th century onwards. Seems that everything was tested there, boots, helmets (laid out by the hundred then shelled) smallarms, rockets, guns, tanks, trucks, aerial bombs, engines, captured equipment.... etc. etc. Rather good survey of the business of keeping up with modern war and it's technological challenges. (with further nuggets on the attempted combat use of Maus, a unit formed at the end of the war using all the captured gear and whatever else was available sounds even stranger than the one with Tiger (P)'s and AA converted T34's)

    The text is a very pleasant read but the really impressive part is the pictures, hundreds of 'em from strange things like prototype PaK36's with 'napoleonic' wooden wheels through Speer frowning in a Sherman and practice bridge demolitions. Werner von Braun's keen little head seems to be in quite a few shots too.
    [​IMG]

    Seems that just about everything conceivable was tested there.
    I liked the look of the 'Germany trips' organised from there, when new vehicles would be taken on weeks long rambling drives around the country. looked like a cushy little number.
    On it's postwar occupation by the soviets; there are pictures of large sheds being built at kummersdorf. Their metal framework being entirely fabricated from Panzerfaust tubes - them being such a plentiful resource around the site.
     
  3. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

     
  4. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Tony le Tissier in his book "Slaughter at Halbe" gives a good account of the fighting that took place around the Proving Grounds. By all accounts it was fairly fierce.
     
  5. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    I read a book once which showed photographs of what remained of the retreating army in a forest South of Berlin.
    It was a total annihilation of everything that moved. Pure carnage. The track was just littered with dead bodies of civilians, soldiers, animals and vehicles.

    Tom
     
  6. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    I read a book once which showed photographs of what remained of the retreating army in a forest South of Berlin.
    It was a total annihilation of everything that moved. Pure carnage. The track was just littered with dead bodies of civilians, soldiers, animals and vehicles.

    Tom
    Tom, theres a good museum in the village of Halbe which describes the fighting that took place in the forests south of berlin. Extremely vicious. But a good place to go to.
     
  7. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Gotthard,

    The next time my better half wants a trip to the Spreewald (probably late spring) I will bear that in mind as the direction is South!

    Regards

    Tom
     
  8. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Here is quite a detailed page devoted to the rocket program initiated at Kummersdorf in the late 20's up to 1940. There's some photos of the establishment as it currently looks too: Kummersdorf proving grounds
     
  9. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Having browsed Adam's link to a Sdkfz 251 website, I came across a picture of the Kummersdorf Training ground, one showing a hill which was used to evaluate the climbing power of vehicles: sdKfz 251
     
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  10. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Just outside of Berlin is the "Heeresversuchsgelände Kummersdorf". This facility is still in use, and has hardly changed since the 19h century.
    [​IMG](period picture, source unknown)

    Most impressive is the gradability hill. Each road up has it's own steepness, from 70% (35 degrees) to 10% (5.7 degrees). For safety al ramps have a winch, capable of securing even the heaviest tank, and pulling it uphill..


    Distortion track

    Close by is the "Verwindungsbahn" (distortion track) to rigidness and torque of vehicles.
    [​IMG](present day picture, 1990's of a vehicle rally, source unknown)
    Present day picture of an OT-251, clearly showing the purpose of the track. The OT's front wheels are high up in the air. A good test for the driver too. If he drives too fast he crashes the front axle into the road.
    The 251 possessed good cross country capability as most of the weight was over the tracks.
    A good link to view, thanks.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  11. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Bits and pieces paraphrased from Fleischer's book:

    ***
    The earlier testing of vehicles was carried out near the Eastern firing range, later called 'The old proving ground for tanks and motor vehicles'. The early forms of the Pz I & II were tested there.

    Wapruf 6 (MV & Tanks) decided the old track was insufficient as other vehicles than tanks became more common on the test schedule.
    In 1938 they began building the new ramps and test track east of Horstwalde, along with facilities for cold weather tests, dust chambers etc. on the Proving ground proper. Horstwalde was chosen because of the existence of useful dunes in the area.

    They also had a 2KM section of paved road built from Kummersdorf to Sperenburg replicating the autobahn surface, for speed & endurance trials.
    ***

    These illustrations are the new ramps and tracks, I think they're the same as Smudger's, wondering if the lower one is the same that 810 is cresting? - haven't looked for a clearly identified picture of the old tracks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Further photos of the range facilities at Kummersdorf can be found at this slightly odd website, devoted to the histoy of ballistic technology:
    LM-Class Bullets for windy Long rang shooting
    Thats one interesting site Capt. Thats some place to wander around. Looking at the debris still around I wonder if that stuff is safe to pick up. I dont know why but I'd be afraid to touch anything that looks shell - like!
     
  14. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

    So would I mate! Very dodgy business playing around with ordnance, apparently expired or not. Mind you, the nastiest moment I have had to date on a range was with a mate who walked around the corner of an isolated bunker to see what appeared to be a ditch full of bodies with bizarely painted faces - said mate leapt vertically 3m and squeeked mightily. On closer and rather hesitant inspection, they turned out not to be human bodies but target dummies with painted faces, and which had been shot to shite on the range. Strange moments.....
     
  15. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Capt C,
    That sounds like Heart Attack material to me! Talk about a gut wretching moment!

    Regards
    Tom
     
  16. trapperjoe

    trapperjoe Junior Member

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  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Good stuff Trapper, so hard to find decent links in a different language to one's own, but once found translators now make them entirely readable.

    And the ramps at Kummersdorf are crystal clear - nice one.
    Direct GE link here:
    View attachment Kummersdorf Ramps..kmz

    Cheers, and welcome aboard,
    Adam.
     
  18. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Owen likes this.
  19. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    Trapperjoe,
    Hello and welcome to the forum. A good first post on the forum. Many thanks.


    Good then and now photos Adam.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  20. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Have to go there. Really really want to see this place up close, especially since it was along the breakout path for 9th Army from Halbe.
     

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