This memorial plaque is in the church at Mautby near Great Yarmouth. Would be interested to know circumstances of the crash and where the crew were buried. Any info?
Unfortunately, there are not the same copius sources for aircraft losses as there are for WW2. I am sure that the archives in the ECN building in Norwich will have copies of the local newspaper giving details of the crash.
Hi, Colin Cummings has produced as seried of books re RAF Post War Crashes - I expet detail will be in that. Will check my copy this evening and post details ... if no one gets there before me Cheers David
Hi again, This Lincoln B2 crashed out of control at Mautby, near RAF Coltishall. It was believed that it broke up in the air when flying in heavy cu-nim cloud ... but evidence was inconclusive. All crew were killed. Locations of graves are not covered in the book. Only the MoD will know, and they will not release such info to mere mortals like us that are actually interested in the subject. The MoD DO have a database of Post War RAF deaths, and this is used for annual check of graves etc .... if only we could have access to this too! Hope this helps Cheers David
Thanks for that, David, it looks as if the local paper is the best bet for any more info. Can anyone help with the ranks/titles given to six of those on board? I'm happy with Flt Lt and LAC, of course, but P.1, E.II.A, S.II.B, G.II.B, G.II.D and P.4 are new to me. Any clues?
Originally posted by Chris Basey@Oct 19 2004, 06:56 AM Thanks for that, David, it looks as if the local paper is the best bet for any more info. Can anyone help with the ranks/titles given to six of those on board? I'm happy with Flt Lt and LAC, of course, but P.1, E.II.A, S.II.B, G.II.B, G.II.D and P.4 are new to me. Any clues? [post=28820]Quoted post[/post] I cant remember the exact dates but for a short time post war the RAF experimented with different names for NCO aircrew. They were rated for 1 to 4 4 being called Master Aircrew, which is still in use 1 was the good old SGt! So p4 Master pilot = warrant Officer Pilot E II = F/sgt Engineer S = Signaller
Further to this interesting story. All the crew are buried at Great Yarmouth (Caister) Cemetery with the exception of Air Gunner R A Trundle who is buried at Lowestoft,his home town. Lincoln B2 RE 373 was in the batch of RE 338 to RE380 built by A.V.Roe at Yeadon (now Leeds-Bradford Airport) delivered to the Royal Air Force between July 1945 and April 1946. In September 1947,97 Squadron were based at RAF Hemswell in North Lincolnshire being in Bomber Command ,No 1 Group and along with its sister squadron, No 83 Squadron,also based at Hemswell, it was one of the two remaining Pathfinder Squadrons left from WW2.A role that both would retain until the mid 1950s. From CWGC records and at first investigation,this Lincoln crew appears to be an all NCO crew as both officers do not appear to to be recorded with a an aircrew designation.Two NCO pilots are shown along with a Flight Engineer. F/L R.V Harvard is recorded as being a member of No 617 Squadron which were based at nearby Binbrook and who were also operating Lincoln BIIs. Nine persons are shown in the aircraft. LAC D G F Cummings would be groundcrew but is shown in the official records as an AC1,most probably having a "free ride" on an aircraft he was party to servicing. There is no navigator listed in the crew and it might be that one of the officers was the Navigator. Losses of Lincolns were due mainly to mid air collisions between Lincolns or Lincoln collisions with fighters when on interception exercises.There must have been a Court of Inquiry in to the loss of RE 373 especially if it was thought it was due to technical failure.Both this or any human error proved would have been circulated to AVRO's and the RAF internally.No doubt the report exists in the now MOD files.
Hi Everyone!, Thanks for confirming burial details Harry and your other useful comments. Did a bit more checking - Lost on Night Navex - have listed Rank titles, First Names, ages and positions in AircraftLincoln B.2 RE373 of 97 Squadron Crashed in Mautby, one mile west of Caistor, Norfolk, near RAF Coltishall 24 September 1947 Aircraft dived into the ground, out of control, whilst on Night Navigational Exercise. It is believed to have lost control or broken up when flying in a heavy cu-nim cloud … but evidence was inconclusive All nine crew were killed Pilot I Stanley Frederick WHITLOCK Age 26 Pilot Pilot IV Jack Anthony GUEST Age 22 Second Pilot Flight Lieutenant John George COOK Age 24 Navigator Flight Lieutenant Ronald Vernon HAVARD Age 24 Navigator (617 Sqn – Flying as Bomb Aimer) Signaller II Albert WATTL|EWORTH Age 21 Gunner II Vincent Orvill WOODS Age 22 Engineer II William ALLISON Age 32 Gunner II Roy Andrew TRUNDLE Age 22 Aircraftman 1st Class Denis Frederick CUMMINGS Age 23 Hope this helps
Harry & Biggles I see that you are both on line (22.55) so a quick 'Thank you' for lots more information. Have obtained the newspaper reports of the crash and the inquest (on the following day) which I will post tomorrow some time - don't know if the scan will be good enough or whether I will have to type them out! Any chance of quoting your sources, please? Apart from the plaque there is nothing in the church about the crash and those who died. I would like to do something that could be given to the church with all the details that you kind people have turned up. Kind regards
Hi Chris, My souces were the Colin Cummings book mentioned before - part of a series - it is in the '1946-1949' volume (Privately published by Colin... adverts appeared in 'Flypast' magazine) and James Halley's book 'Broken Wings' published by Air Britain. Hope this helps David
Here are the newspaper reports: EASTERN DAILY PRESS 25th September 1947 R.A.F. Bomber Explodes at Mautby The accident happened in the early hours of the morning when a four-engined Lincoln bomber, with a crew of nine, came down at Mautby and exploded on hitting the ground. Five bodies were recovered from the wreckage and four airmen have been officially listed by the Air Ministry as “Missing believed killed”. On Training Flight The bomber had been on an all night training flight across England to Swansea, over the Channel to Cherbourg and back via Yarmouth. It crashed during heavy rain and lightning and villagers at Mautby say they heard nothing until the explosion awoke them. The aircraft, which belonged to 97 Bomber Squadron at Hemswell, Lincolnshire, was burnt out shortly after hitting the ground and exploding only about 100 yards from the cottage where Mr and Mrs Charles Banham, of Waters Farm, Mautby, live. Wreckage was flung over and area of 400 to 500 yards. Mr Banham, who was in bed when the aircraft came over shortly after midnight, told a reporter that there was a terrific crash and a huge glow lit up the sky. “I dashed out half dressed and carried a spade to prevent the fire spreading to corn stacks nearby,” he said, “Over and acre of barley stubble was ablaze and wreckage was spread over a very wide area. The heat was too intense for me to get near the blaze. I ran and telephoned for the fire brigade, but the fire had already been seen in Yarmouth and engines were on the way.” “I was joined by some of my neighbours and we organised search parties to see I we could find any sign of life. One body was lying about 100 yards from the hole where the crash occurred and there was another an equal distance away in a different place. Heat Intense Mr Alan Weston said: “We all come running out when we heard the crash. At first we thought the farm buildings were ablaze, but the fire was too fierce for that. When we come to the plane the heat was too intense for us to do much. P.C. T.Smith, of Filby, told a reporter that he was an eye witness of the incident. “I was cycling home just after midnight,” he said, “there was torrential rain at the time and then a flash of sheet lightning. Simultaneously, there was a terrific bang and out of the clouds I saw a ball of flame coming down over Mautby. I at once cycled there and found the wreckage of the plane.” N.F.S. units from Yarmouth ND Acle went to the scene, but could do little because of the intensity of the flames. There is a big crater where the plane crashed. At first it was thought that the four men unaccounted for might have baled out over the sea. Three lifeboats from Gorleston, Caister and Lowestoft, were launched , being joined in their search by two R.A.F. Lincolns. The search was abandoned in the early afternoon. An Air Ministry official stated last night that the wreckage had been examined and the were satisfied that nobody left the aircraft before the crash. The inquest is being opened today at Coltishall R.A.F. station at 5pm. EASTERN DAILY PRESS 26th September 1947 Bomber’s Fall After Flash of Lightning Coltishall Inquest on Crew of Nine What caused a four-engined Lincoln bomber to crash at Mautby at midnight on Wednesday, with the loss of nine lives remained unexplained at an in quest held by the Norwich District coroner (Mr G.W. Barnard) at Coltishall air station last night. There was evidence that after a flash of lightning the aircraft was seen to fall from the clouds in a ball of fire. A senior officer present agreed with the coroner that there was a possibility that the machine was struck by lightning, although this would be a most unusual occurrence. The place was on a night training flight from Hemswell air station, Lincolnshire, and one of the crew, all of whom were killed, was a Lowestoft air-gunner, Raymond A. Trundle, aged 22. He was one of the first members of the Lowestoft Squadron A.T.C., in which he became flight sergeant before being called up to the R.A.F. four years ago. He was the son of the late Mr O.R. Trundle and Mrs I. Trundle, now of 40 London Road South. The Crew The eight other airmen who lost their lives were: the pilot, Stanley Frederick Whitlock (26) 197 Ryegate Road, Bromley; Flt. Lieut. John George Cook (24), navigator, Danum House, Connaught Road, Gainsborough; Ft. Lieut. Ronald V. Havard (24), bomb aimer and second navigator, 81 Keray Street, Stoke-on Trent; Albert Wattleworth (21), wireless operator, 108 Oswald Road, Chorlton-cum-Hardy, Manchester; Vincent Orvill Woods (22), gunner, 61, Canterbury Road, Morden, Surrey; Jack Anthony Guest (22), second pilot, 2 Bangholme Terrace, Edinburgh; William Allison (34) flight engineer, 4 Appin Road, Kinlochleven, Argyllshire and A.C.1 Dennis G.F.Cummings, 6 Breadcross Road, woodland Park, Maidenhead. Cummings was travelling in the plane as a passenger. Five bodies were recovered from the wreckage. Flt. Lieut. George Newbury, who flew another bomber from Helmswell over the same course that night, with points at Swansea, Cherbourg and Yarmouth said conditions were worse over Norfolk than anywhere else, but he was able to avoid them by flying at 10,000 feet. Flash and Terrific Bang P.C.Smith of Filby, said he heard the aircraft coming from the direction of Yarmouth but was unable to see it owing to the low clouds. It was raining and there was intermittent flashes of sheet lighting. Suddenly a bright, and closer, flash of lightning lit the sky and simultaneously he heard a terrific bang. “Then a ball of flame dropped out of the clouds and I heard a loud thud.” He said. The constable said he found the plane had crashed in a stubble field at Water’s Farm, Mautby, where the wreckage strewn over a wide area burned furiously. The Coroner recorded a verdict that the airmen died from multiple injuries “caused by the aircraft becoming accidentally ignited and crashing to the ground.” Supt. W. Calver represented the Norfolk police.
Very revealing information on the fate of RE 373. It looks as if lightning was the cause of its loss. All the crew are listed in the CWGC records as their deaths occurred within the qualifing period ending in 1947.Other aircraft losses and related crew records tend to be difficult to unearth.Sometimes they receive a mention in the appropriate squadron association records.This aircraft loss is not mentioned in the No 97 Squadron Association records or the publication "Lincoln at War. 1944-1966" As posted before,RE373 was reported to have been built by AVROs at Yeadon ("Lancaster - the story of a famous bomber" by Bruce Robertson) while the publication, "Lincoln at War 1944-1966"by Mike Garbutt and Brian Goulding indicates that RE373 was built by AVROs at Chadderton and delivered to the RAF from Woodford. The four crew, "Missing believed killed",were these found or were they lost within the crashed aircraft?There are nine CWGC graves recorded.
Hi - Roy Trundle was my mother's brother. His body was moved to be with the other members of the crew. There is more info about the incident and the burials here: 24.09.1947 Avro Lincoln RE373 Maultby, Norfolk, England The crash was due to the plane being hit by lightening. Apart from the Newspaper reports, I understand that Roy's mother and twin sister were watching the plane fly over when it went down. Best wishes, Liz Panton
Hello Liz, Welcome to the forum and thank you for telling us more about what happened. I hope you enjoy the forum as much as I do, they are a friendly bunch here.
Hello Slaphead I am back after 7 years with an update! Firstly, I need to correct an error in my previous post. I said that Gunner Roy Trundle's body had been moved from Lowestoft to Caister. I was wrong - it was Roy's grave headstone that was moved: 24.09.1947 Avro Lincoln RE373 Maultby, Norfolk, England. + Secondly, there will be a 70 years Remembrance Service on 23 Sept 2017. First a graveside service at Caister and then a service at St. Peter and St. Paul's Church, Mautby. Service will remember RAF crew who were killed in tragic crash Best wishes, Liz
