location of the Pre-Invasion Marshalling camp number B 9?

Discussion in 'General' started by Son Of Sapper, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Son Of Sapper

    Son Of Sapper Junior Member

    Hello forum,

    Question: Where is the location of the Pre-Invasion Marshalling camp number B 9?
    Can the forum help or suggest any lines of research please?

    Source: 280th Field Company Royal Engineers war diary 1944.
    “31st May, 1200 hrs. 280th assault parties move to camp B9”.

    Also, “3rd June, 1300 hrs. First two craft loads left B9 camp & proceeded to
    Q2 hard where they embarked in LCT’s 2412 & 2413 at 1500 hrs”.

    Supposition:
    Being a “B” camp I would expect it to be in the New Forest/ Fawley /Brockenhurst area.

    Unsuccessful leads
    The map “D Day camps in Roydon Woods” that appears on the website “New Forest Remembered”
    only shows B camps up to #8.”
    Likewise, The Portsmouth D Day museum do not know & they referred to this same map.

    Possible Leads
    In Sapper (280th) Donnison’s letter he mentions that there were troops from the Green Howards & the Nottingham Yeomanry also in the “transit camp” on the evening of Friday the 2nd June.
    Donnison’s letter curtesy of IWM.

    Some background info. for those interested.
    The 153 sappers, NCO’s & officers of 280th Fld Coy RE assult team embarked onto their allotted 6x LCT at Q2 hard which is at the western end of Stanswood Bay.

    They had been training in this area for the preceding couple of weeks. That is blowing up replica beach obstacles & having them towed off with AVRE’s as was their assigned tasks for H hour.

    It was 3 Platoon of 280th that embarked onto LCT’s 2412 & 2413 including my Father.

    The LCT’s were to transport the “Funnies” of 81st squadron 6 Assault Regt RE & flail tanks of C squadron Westminster Dragoons along with the sappers.

    Their destination was Gold, King area of the Normandy beach & they took along with them two folding boats & two box carts upon each craft which contained additional PHE, rations, etc. including their rifles.
    Sapper 6151340 (Dad) was assign Green section of King breeching gap, either1or 2.

    As far as I’m aware Saturday 3rd June was the FIRST time Dad had been on board ANY landing craft.
    There is no mention in 280th Fld Coy RE war diary for 1944 of any training involving landing craft.
    The Company only learnt that they were to be used in the invasion on 4 May a month before!
    Up to this point in time their main purpose & training was in bridge building.
    However, they were familiar with mines & explosives.

    The assult team had 12 days training & on day 13 (21 May) took part in“a rehearsal for the assult landing”.
    This took place at Stanswood beach & afterwards it was deemed 280th Fld Coy RE training was completed. Landing craft were not specified in this rehearsal. They were ready to go!

    Son of Sapper
     
  2. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    With mention of Green Howard's and Nottingham Yeomanry - aka Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry - could it be Hursley Park near Romsey?
     
  3. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  4. Roy Martin

    Roy Martin Senior Member

    Some of the Green Howards crossed on the LSI(L) Empire Lance
     
  5. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

  6. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,

    The Notts Yeomanry War Diary only mentions “C” camps.

    18th May. “Two parties moved off today - assault ( D Day) party to Hursley Camp (Camp C 13) - the assault Residue to Toothill camp.”

    27th May. Locations given as Fawley, Hursley, Toothill and Larkhill

    1st June. “Camp C 10 appears to be quiet the best organised.”


    Regards

    Danny
     
  7. Son Of Sapper

    Son Of Sapper Junior Member

    Thanks for replys. Not pinned down as yet but getting closer.

    The Map confirms my thinking that all the B camps are about the New Forest district.
    Intresting to see T 4 (Transit area 4) this is Stanswood Bay where the 280th embarked.

    With the Notts Yeomanry moving to Fawley on 27th May, this is the closest to the target & best bet at this point.
    This is roughly about the southern part of B3 on the map.

    280th Fld coy RE moved to C 18 camp after leaving Mote Park near Maidstone in Kent.
    As the Company were arranged into the assult party they moved to C 1 camp & it was here they got their first briefing on the 26 May after the camp was sealed. Five days later they moved to camp B 9.

    With thanks
    Son of sapper
     
  8. tmac

    tmac Senior Member

    In June 2014, en route to Normandy for the D-Day 70th anniversary ceremonies, my brother and I traced the site of Camp A4, near Horndean, north of Portsmouth. This was where our father's gun troop was stationed prior to the invasion. In 1944, the site was a well-forested area called Hazleton Wood. But today (see old map and modern satellite image) it is mostly covered by housing, an industrial estate and a motorway. However, if Camp B9 was in the New Forest, it is possible that the site is still intact, because presumably such areas are protected from development. Good luck with your search.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    My thoughts on this.

    280th Fld coy RE moved to C 18 on Southampton Common. Then they moved to C 1 Camp at Harefield Southampton. Which is further away from their (known) embarkation point.
    At this moment in time the plan for overlord would still be receiving many tweaks as the planners try to get everything right.

    Now assuming that there was no error in writing up the war diary they went to camp B9.
    Apparently there is no official record of a camp B9. So is it Possible there was an error in transcribing a written report into the diary and camp B5 at Brockenhurst NF, became B9?

    Now we have to remember that D day was going to be on the morning of the 5th.
    So 280th Fld coy RE would have to be loaded on the LC at Stanswood beach and ready to go, by the latest, the evening of the fourth.

    We know that they left C 1 Camp at Harefield Southampton on the first of June. So allowing for the distance and time to get to the embarkation point. Camp B9 had to be pretty close that point.

    Looking at the land around Stanwsood bay brings up some places where such a camp could have been.
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Stanswood+Rd,+Southampton+SO45+1AB/@50.8011646,-1.3406595,1776m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48747af908574e8d:0xba4a08410046d217!8m2!3d50.8027682!4d-1.3421615?hl=en-GB

    Noticeably Cadland Estate.
    Bid to reveal importance of New Forest in World War II | Heritage Lottery Fund

    <Frank said: “Some of the World War II features are well-documented like the 12 airfields that were created in the Forest and the building of the Mulberry Harbours at Lepe for D-Day. Others we come across by chance – a survey of the Cadland Estate back in 2008 revealed 34 World War II features we didn’t know about such as the remains of encampments, infantry trenches and air raid shelters. That’s only a small area of the New Forest so it shows that the records that we currently have represent a very small part of the overall picture of the National Park’s wartime past.>


    As camp B9 appears to have been a temporarily staging post, it is possibly it never went down as an official camp.
     
  10. Son Of Sapper

    Son Of Sapper Junior Member

    Thanks for added thoughts.
    Yes 280th Fld Coy RE did receive their invitation to the party rather late & were squezzed in at the last moment.
    All down to Rommel upsetting Morgan's plan!!

    The war diary is very clear on "B 9" but I do take the point of where it was copied from may not have been clear.
    As mentoined above, they did embark on Saturday afternoon & that is where they stayed until Tuesday morning at Normandy.

    Likewise I think it must have been fairly close by & I have a strong feeling it was about Fawley given the Notts Yeomen were also moved to Fawley. Therefore high possibility it my have been on the Cadland Estate.

    Are there any members out there with Notts Yeomenry or Green Howards connections that can confirm their men were in B 9?

    Previously I have had a good hunt around on the web sites above plus other veterns memoirs etc.
    Fawley Woods comes up as having thousands of men & machines here.
    Hence best bet is that B 9 was on Cadland Estate.

    I have written to some of the local organization about the area so we will see if they come up with anything.

    Will the location be there today? I doubt it, probably the refinery was built over it.

    RCG, I'm intrigued by your "Apparently there is no official record of a camp B9".
    Do you have access to a listing or record?

    Cheers for now
    Son of Sapper
     
  11. RCG

    RCG Senior Member, Deceased

    No I have no records or listings. I just use logic.
    So it is logic to assume there is no official record of camp B9. other than that in the war diary, if it was an official camp then surely it would be on here.
    Hampshire and D-Day: A short history - D-Day Museum and Overlord Embroidery
    Nor can anyone else place it.
    A few pics of ww2 remains on the coast at Cadland.
    New Forest Rapid Coastal Zone Assessment Survey. Phase 2: Field Assessment | Historic England

    Q2 Hard.
    http://www.pastscape.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=1413494
     
  12. DannyM

    DannyM Member

    Hi,
    A couple of entries from the War Diaries.

    6th Bn Green Howards
    16th May. Bn arrived at Camp 14 (South Holmes Copse nr Romsey)

    30th May. Marshalling commenced when A/T and Carrier Pls proceeded to Camp 13 situated near Hursley.

    31st May. A, B, C and D Coys moved to Southampton and embarked on L.S.I.’s

    7th Bn Green Howards
    16th May. Camp C 15, Romsey.

    29th to 30th May. Camp C 16.

    Regards

    Danny
     
  13. Son Of Sapper

    Son Of Sapper Junior Member

    SOLVED!

    With grateful thanks to Gareth Owen of NFNPA archaeology through the New Forest Remembers web site.

    New Forest Remembers

    Gareth went the extra mile & delved into their old archives & found the map of Stanswood area showing two areas circled in pencil.
    He has now posted the map along with my background info onto their site as above.

    In Gareth's words
    " B9 doesn’t start appearing in the records until early in 1944 and is not officially recorded on the maps.
    One of my contact pointed me in the direction of this doc:
    National archives ref: WO 166/14367 - HQ Marshalling Area B, Mar-July 44

    We hold most of this doc in our offline archive and in: Marshalling Area Routine Orders, Serial No. 23. 4 May 1944.
    B9 is noted as a new camp located in “Stanswood Bay (MR905208)” and on 4 May 1944 a Major McWhor was in Command under ‘Y’ Sub Area."

    The location is still intact probably on private land, I'll have to go see one day.

    Thank you gentlemen, a very satisfactory result.

    Son of Sapper.
     
    DannyM likes this.
  14. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

  15. Bala

    Bala Member

     

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