Looking for any information on my grandfather who fought at Monte Cassino 56 Recce

Discussion in 'Recce' started by Victoria Butterworth, Sep 18, 2016.

  1. Hello everyone. I'm really hoping someone out there is able to give me even a slither of information about my grandfather. I would ask him about his time in the war and he would never tell me a thing, saying talking about it was 'glorifying war.' He has since passed away but I am left not knowing really anything about his time during world war 2.

    This is a complete long shot because I don't know what regiment he belonged to or what years he was active. All I have is that he name was Ernest John Haynes, born in London and fought at Monte Cassino.

    I'm grasping at straws but if anyone has any information, anything at all, I would be so grateful to find anything out.

    Thank you all.

    Victoria
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  3. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    I've checked my list and I don't think he was with my grandfather's battalion at Cassino - it was a long-shot.

    The short version is that a lot of different units fought in and around Cassino for an extended period of time and it's unlikely that you'll be able to discover more without first doing as Owen advises. Receiving my grandfather's records was the single most helpful part of my research so far as it opened up so many different angles for investigation.

    Even if the documentation gives you nothing more than unit-location-date, posting that here will enable our members to get back to you with a lot of suggestions and links; with just a name and a London connection, you're relying on pure luck that it rings a bell with somebody.

    The good news is that recent applications for records are coming back very fast - sometimes within a fortnight.
     
  4. Thank you both for your help. I have been able to find out a little more about him through an ancestry website.

    He was part of the Queens Royal West Surrey Regiment and transferred to the 56 Bn Recce Corp Battalion on 9.2.41.

    Again if anyone does have any information about what their roll was in the war I would love to hear about it. I will also be sending off for the details as well as was suggested above.

    Thanks again.

    Victoria
     
  5. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Wish you'd said he was in 56 Recce in first post.
    There are members on here with a huge interest in that unit.
    Lots of posts on here about them.
    I'll edit the thread title to attract their attention.

    Link to thread 56 Recce war diaries
    56th Recce War Diary
     
  6. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Victoria, you might be in luck, relatives of two 56 Recce men post here regularly, I believe.
    Owen, the diary links in that thread are broken - they were 'internal' ones that didn't transfer correctly.
     
    4jonboy likes this.
  7. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  8. Thank you for such quick replies and for the links to the diaries. These are incredibly interesting and will jump into reading them straight away.

    Victoria
     
  9. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello Victoria and welcome to the forum. Owen alerted me to your posting as my father was in 56 Recce too. There is a huge interest in 56 Recce on the forum. Recce_Mitch aka Paul Mitchell has transcribed the war diaries and they can be viewed via Owen's posting above.
    If Paul doesn't get back to you with info on your grandfather, I will have a look to see if I can see his name on any of the war diary appendices and get back to you.

    If you take a look at my profile page you will find my Album photos-is your GF on any of them?
    56 Recce | WW2Talk


    Lesley
     
  10. Unfortunately I cannot spot him in any of your pictures Lesley, but how incredible that you have such photos to look upon.

    If you do find anything in your war diaries of just a mention of my grandfathers name I would love to see/hear about it. I have his army number now if that helps in anyway.

    Thank you so much

    Victoria
     
  11. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Yes an army number would be helpful, thanks. Just post anything at all, photos, even the slightest bit of info would be helpful.
    All will be revealed when you get his records from the MOD. See this link for my dad's records-they give an idea of what you might expect. Make sure you ask for the FULL records. Hopefully you will receive them in around 2 to 3 weeks, then you can come back with more information and we will be able to help much more.
    Ernest Illingworth, Army Records | WW2Talk
     
  12. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Victoria.

    I am a battlefield guide for Cassino and will next be there with a civilian group in 8-11 Jun 17 - most of my work is for groups from the British Army.

    If you would like to see the ground over which he fought and understand what 56 Recce Regt got up to then do get in touch. It is quite a story.

    I am at www.cassinobattlefields.co.uk.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  13. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Victoria

    I forgot to mention some books about 56 Recce. They were part of the British 78th Infantry (Battleaxe) Division. I can recommend the following books:

    Only the Enemy in Front by Richard Doherty (Hardback around 8 quid from Amazon)
    Algiers to Austria by Cyril Ray (Amazon 17.47 available now-well worth the money-some copies a lot more)
    Battleaxe Division by Ken Ford. (Also Amazon 8 quid)

    Lesley
     
  14. Frank - Wow you must know some incrediably stories. I will check out your website.

    Lesley - thank you for these recommendations. I have put all 3 in my cart and will be purchasing them as soon as pay day rolls around.

    As this is very very new to me did the 56 Recce and the 78th infantry division combine together? So could I for instance research into the 78th infantry division to gather more information as to what my grandfather and many others went through?

    Thank you

    Victoria
     
  15. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

  16. Recce_Mitch

    Recce_Mitch Very Senior Member

    Hi Victoria

    Welcome to the forum, great to have another 56 Recce on board. It looks like your grandfather was with HQ Sqn as was my late father. He is mentioned in the diaries as having done a wheeled course & a A/Tank course. My father was also A/Tank serving as a Driver/Mech on a Portee. The listing in the diary should be sometime during 1942,.

    Cheers
    Paul
     
    4jonboy likes this.
  17. Oh my goodness Paul to think that my grandfathers name is somewhere out there makes me so happy.

    Are the diary listings you wrote about the diary entries that were posted earlier in this thread?

    Thank you

    Victoria
     
  18. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Victoria.

    Just so that you understand what a Recce Regt did. Each Division had one and their role was to be out at the front of any advance in order to identify enemy positions. This allowed the Divisional Commander to get early warning of his challenge and produce a plan to deal with it.

    If the front was static or slow moving, other tasks included traffic control and route marking. They could do this because they had vehicles and were all linked by radio.

    If things got really desperate they were also used in the dismounted role as infantryman - they parked up their vehicles and were given a piece of ground to defend.

    Recce Regts tended to draw on the brighter end of the manpower pool.

    If he was in HQ Squadron, he was likely to have a support role - driving trucks, stores, signals. If he had been in A, B or Sqn - known as Sable Squadrons, he would have had the roles described above.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  19. Thank you Frank. Having just found out yesterday what batallion he was in I still have no idea what he did or what roles may have been included. I've googled a few things and can find reference to "A" "B" "C" squadrons but find no mention of a HQ sqn. So I'm still unsure as to why his role really was. Did he fight at all or if he was at the back etc are all questions I'm trying to serve out.
     

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