Looking for details on the Battles of Osnabruck - Berne April 1945

Discussion in 'NW Europe' started by Birdie Dog, May 26, 2016.

  1. Birdie Dog

    Birdie Dog Member

    I have a relative who fought in the German army with the 416th IR and Regiment Reck- Reste der 490th Division. The units participated in the battles of Osnabruck, Ahlhorn, Grossenkneten, Kirchatten, Hude, and Berne. I know that he fought in Osnabruck and Ahlhorn at the minimum, as he received two tank destruction badges on the 18th of April, 1945, which fell between the battles of Ahlhorn and Grossenkneten. I have no documentation that indicates whether he finished the war with the unit in Berne or was captured shortly after the 18th of April, 1945.

    I know that that Osnabruck fell on the 4th of April, 1945, and that the battle for Ahlhorn took place on the 14th of April. I also know that the Worchester Regiment took part in the battle for Ahlhorn and Commandos led the way in Osnabruck. Other than this, I know of no details of my relative's experiences.

    1. Can anyone provide any further details on these battles?
    2. What battle or skirmish took place on the 18th of April? He single-handedly destroyed two tanks, so it must have been a battle of at least moderate proportions.
    3. I sent requests to British War Archives back in October and have not received ANY acknowledgement of receipt whatsoever. What is the best way to go about obtaining information from this establishment?
    4. Any detailed information about any of the listed battles will be most appreciated. I can provide whatever information on the combatant in question which may be of assistance.

    Thank you for your time.

    B-Dog.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    There is a book (in German) by Gunther Wegmann on the battles in this area, entitled: "Das Kriegsende zwischen Ems und Weser". This might give some clues.

    Unfortunately I do not (yet) have a copy of the book, but I've been informed that it still is in print.
     
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  3. Bluebell Minor

    Bluebell Minor Junior Member

    Birdie Dog

    Welcome

    The Worcestershire Regiment no longer exists but there appears to be an excellent website sponsored by former members of the Regiment which could contain some useful information

    Go to
    www.worcestershireregiment.com
    then
    Research
    1st Battalion War Diaries
    April 1945

    The entries for 13th-18th April (which includes a Battle Map) should be of particular interest to you.

    (The Battalion was part of 241 Brigade of 43 Wessex Division/30 British Corps at the time. As an Infantry Battalion it did not posses any Tanks but in keeping with British practise at the time a Squadron (Company) of tanks from another Regiment would have given close support during the advance north).

    Good luck with your research.
     
  4. Birdie Dog

    Birdie Dog Member

    Good day. Thank you for the warm reception, as well as the infomation and assistance. I think that the website is regional access only. I found the Worcestershire site in the past, but each time I try to go onto the site, I receive a message like:


    Apache 2 Test Page
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    About CentOS:The Community ENTerprise Operating System (CentOS) Linux is a community-supported enterprise distribution derived from sources freely provided to the public by Red Hat. As such, CentOS Linux aims to be functionally compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux. The CentOS Project is the organization that builds CentOS. We mainly change packages to remove upstream vendor branding and artwork.

    For information on CentOS please visit the CentOS website.
    Note:
     
  5. Birdie Dog

    Birdie Dog Member

    What do the entries for 13th-18th April (which includes a Battle Map) reveal?
     
  6. Birdie Dog

    Birdie Dog Member

    I will look for this book! Thank you Sir.
     
  7. idler

    idler GeneralList

    From the other side, a useful overview of the final campaign is 'No Triumphant Procession'.

    I will try and have a look at the regimental and divisional histories over the weekend to see what it's got in it (unless someone beats me to it).

    As for stuff from the archives, we have a couple of members who can do you copies a lot cheaper than Kew itself - Drew5233 and PsyWar.org.

    And welcome to the forum!
     
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  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    OK, 'No Triumphant Procession' is a bust on this subject. Cross that one off the wants list.
     
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  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    The 43 Wessex Div history has a couple of pages on Ahlhorn so I will try to get a scan of those later. 7 Somerset Light Infantry made the final attack on the town, supported by 13/18 Hussars, so there are a couple of other places to look.

    The other 'battles' aren't indexed in this one.
     
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  10. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Last bit for now: the SLI history is quite brief, but it credits 5 Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry with taking Ahlhorn on 19 April, so perhaps the initial attack did not clear the whole town. Anyway, it's another lead. There is a sketch map that shows an Ahlthorn just before Ahlhorn, so there could be some confusion there.
     
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  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    13th - 19th April 1945 (link - http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/1Worc_war_diary_Apr1945.php)


    13

    Reveille 04.00 hrs. Bn Group moved off 06.00 hrs advancing on Red Heart Route, passing through HERZELAKE, LONINGEN and stopped at OLDENDORF (0765) at 08.00 hrs. Bn H.Q. established at 072657.
    Bde "O" Gp 11.00 hrs, when preliminary orders were issued for 214 Bde to continue the advance when 130 Bde had seized CLOPPENBURG. Bde "O" Gp 19.00 hrs when orders for 214 Bde to pass through 130 Bde and continue the advance on Red Heart Route to AHLHORN X-rds 319785. The 5 D.C.L.I. did a night attack and seized BETHEN.

    072657
    14

    Reveille 04.30 hrs. Bn Gp at half hours notice to move.


    14
    07.45
    Bn moved off - "D" Coy Gp leading. Advance was slow owing to rd blocks and craters which were encountered every 500 - 600 yds. Very little actual opposition which was only sufficient to enable enemy to blow craters. An enemy S.P. Gun firing from the woods North of the rd approx 1,200 yds away shelled the column when it was spotted and shelled by our Arty effectively. Unluckily a piece of shrapnel struck the C.O. in the leg causing him some discomfort. At 18.30 hrs "D" Coy had advanced 4 miles and reached R. LETHE. Bridge was blown but a small bridge 400 yds to the South was found and the Coy Gp went over and established a bridgehead. "A" Coy then passed through the bridgehead to make it firm. "C" & "B" Coys did not cross the river but were in close defence of bridging site. Major B. N. R. Elder was wounded in the leg and evacuated. R.E's. commenced building bridge during night but owing to accurate enemy shelling bridging Ops were stopped at 02.00 hrs.


    15

    At 05.00 hrs heavy and accurate shelling from 2 S.P. Guns on the bridgehead was the prelude to a determined counter-attack by 200 Inf supported by 2 Panther Tanks. This attack had some initial success, as the two leading Platoons suffered casualties including Lt. Smith killed, but Lt. Crossingham's Pl remained firm and inflicted severe casualties on the enemy. "A" Coy rallied, led by Maj P. G. Hall and what was a dangerous situation was in hand. After further enemy attempts to reach the bridge had failed owing to heavy and accurate small arms fire, enemy tanks and infantry withdrew. This attack cost the enemy 40 dead, 30 or 40 wounded and 60 P's W.

    Bn. H.Q. at 286779
    15

    At 16.00 hrs "C" Coy passed through and cleaned up tongue of wood and were established at 17.00 hrs. 2 Offrs and 40 O.R's. surrendered to us during the evening.

    CLOPPENBURG FOREST
    16

    Bn cleaning up CLOPPENBURG FOREST - North side of main axis. Task completed by 18.00 hrs. Little opposition but mines encountered. One Carrier was blown up on mine and one killed. Bn H.Q. moved to 281810. Major P. G. Hall wounded and evacuated. Total P.W. for day - 8.

    STEINLOGE
    394795
    17
    12.00
    Orders were received that Bn would occupy area STEINLOGE (3979) to protect left flank of Div axis. Bn moved off 15.00 hrs "B" Coy objective was found to be occupied by enemy and Coy consolidated in woods 396812. Bn. H.Q. at 394795. Total P.W. for day - 11.

    395806
    18

    "B" and "C" Coys re-grouped. "B" Coy to area 395821, "C" Coy to area 420805. At 16.00 hrs Bn H.Q. moved to 395806. Orders were received at 19.00 hrs that Bn would be relieved by unit of 4 Cdn Bde on the 19th - Total P.W. for day - 3.

    BONRECHTERN
    432701
    19

    Orders issued for move to conc. area RECHTERFELD (4372) and BONRECHTERN (4370). Relief by a Bn 4 Cdn Bde commenced at 12.00 hrs and Coys proceeded by march route to new area. Relief completed by 16.00 hrs. Bn. H.Q. at BONRECHTERN 432701.





    TD
     
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  12. Bluebell Minor

    Bluebell Minor Junior Member

    Tricky Dicky

    Thank you

    www.lightdragoons.org contains some interesting relevant information

    Go to Historical downloads and then C Squadron 13/18 H War Diary. Although not the official document the narrative does contain details of the events in the Alhorn area. It would appear what would be now called the 1 WORCESTER Battle Group lost a tank from the 13/18 H and a SP Gun from the supporting (unidentified) Artillery Battery.
     
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  13. Birdie Dog

    Birdie Dog Member

    Thank you all for looking. I've ordered that book.

    Idler,Tricky Dicky, and Bluebell Minor,

    Thank you all for your efforts. Worcester account is vivid. I did not see anything about tanks destroyed, but I am sure that there were. Idler, I am excited to see what you come up with!

    regards
    Paul
     
  14. Birdie Dog

    Birdie Dog Member

    I have been doing some thinking over the past few days. I know that the Major was in the area and fought in those battles, based upon the unit he was assigned to at the time.

    Another question- I also know that my relative surrendered to the British sometime after Alhlorn. Is it possible for me to research this in the archives? Where and how would I search for POW lists?

    The last image shows the date of the two tank destruction badges (18Apr1945) and that he was with the 471st at the time.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    RE his time as a POW - I came across this link which may help - http://genealogy.stackexchange.com/questions/3915/how-to-find-information-on-german-soldiers-from-world-war-i-and-world-war-ii - this link contains further links for German records.

    and also a comment that rang a bell, for me, saying that records were returned to the POW's own country -

    "An organisation called the Prisoner of War Information Bureau was set up by Britain at the start of the Second World War. That organisation held the records on individual POWs held in Britain. The Bureau closed down after the last POWs were repatriated in 1948. In the 1960's the Bureau's records were dispersed to the respective national government according to the nationality of the POW. Therefore, the records I am interested in are now held by Germany."

    TD
     
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  16. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Colonel Peter Hall gives his first hand account about the "Battle" of Ahlhorn: http://www.louisscully.com/Worc/dnld/Tales_of_a_disorderly_officer_2002.pdf

    Some background material from my archive:


    Division 490 and 471 were thrown together and had an estimated strength of Regimental size in several Kampfgruppen
    Generalleutnant Ernst Haeckel wrote in his account for the US Historical Division:
    for 18. April I also would recommend a glance to the canadians (South Alberta Regiment) who fought at Bissel (a small Airstrip between Ahlhorn and Grossenkneten)

    BTW: ist there some connection to this thread?:
    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823037

    regards
    Olli
     
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  17. Birdie Dog

    Birdie Dog Member

    Hi Oli,

    I apologize for the late reply. Yes, there is a direct connection between that thread and this one. I am the original poster for both. I am casting the widest net possible to obtain as much information as I can. I dont know if I am going about my archival research all wrong, but despite obtaining about 3000 pages of information, there is much I am learning via other means, like these forums. At this point, all I am missing are his award recommendation documents. Someone let slip in the past that he was recommended for the RK in the final days for his defense of northern Germany. I've found nothing to substantiate that. Also, I feel that the award summaries for his DKiG, Ehrenblattspange, EK1 and EK2 will fill in a lot of holes in my questions on his actual contributions to the war. I am surprised that I cannot find the recommendation summaries in either his records or the unit archives... I must be doing something wrong.

    Regards
    Paul
     
  18. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Paul

    Is it possible that, because the actions you are researching happened so close to the end of the War, there was simply no time or coordination to get that (paperwork) job done?.....or the paperwork never made it into retained files/archives? Having said that, the German army were meticulous record keepers! I can't help you directly but I wish you luck with your research. Don't assume you are doing anything wrong unless you are looking in the wrong place......
     
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  19. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Do you have a copy of the documents for the tank destruction badges? Usually there was a slight delay between tank destruction and the confirmation.
    There is a possibility he fought against the Canadian South Alberta Regiment, who lost several tanks during this time in the area Cloppenburg - Wardenburg
     
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  20. PaulReck

    PaulReck New Member

    I am the original poster of this thread. I had to create another account because I forgot my initial username. LOL

    I do not have a copy of the documents, sadly. I will follow the Cloppenburg/Wardenburg lead. Thank you!
     
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