Looking for info on Signalman David Warren Herring DCM, 51st Highland Divisional Signals

I received a message tonight from the above man's son asking for help so I said I'd start a thread for him.

 

His citation, quite a remarkable story:



Before Capture


Was a wireless operator in charge of wireless set in the neighbourhood of Neufchatel for 3 days. Had orders to get to the coast. On arriving at destination had orders to proceed to Viconte to establish wireless constructions from the blockwatch to Divisional HQ. This was on 10th June. At Ourville were stopped by German tanks which were in action for 7 hours. On the night of the 10th at 630 were surrounded and taken prisoner.


Capture


The same night they slept in Ourville where they had been taken to a shed and guarded by sentries with automatic rifes. They were told to declare what they had, and were stripped, and had to give up everything. There were a large party of prisoners, mostly French.


Escape (1)


The next day I escaped during the journey to Rouenwhile marching in columns of approxiamtely 150 down a narrow road. A lorry passed, and I broke away from the column and hid in the ditch near the road. I was by myself. After the passing of the column I proceeded to a farm I could see and was given clothing and food by the people there. This was the Mayor of Ourville, who also told me where he thought the Germans were and the best route to take. At dusk I left the farm and proceeded to St. Valery. On arriving at some cross roads in the dark I saw two people and, on asking them the way, found out they were German Soldiers. They were asking for St. Vallery and showed me a map where the Germans were advancing on St. Valery. This made me change my route, and I took note from the map and proceeded top Fecamp. The Germans told me it was not possible to get into St. Valery as it was surrounded by troops. This was on this evening of 11th June.


I carried on, passing Cany, which was almost demolished. At daybreak I arrived at Fecamp on 12th June. There were a number of fishing boats about, and I attempted to escape, but I was fired on by the guns on the cliffs. I came back to shore and was picked up by Germans on motor-cycles. I was still in the civilian clothes I had been given by the farmer, and the Germans did not know I was an English Soldier.


I was taken to a concentration camp in Fecamp, where I met troops who were captured the day before. We were taken from Fecamp to Rouen, and there I met a men of my own company who were taken the same morning at St. Valery. They told me that nearly all my division had been captured or killed.


I immediately made plans to escape with a comrade. On 15th June, during the march North, I and my comrade (Redman) did attempt to escape. I left Redman in a cornfield however, and he returned to the column, whicg consisted of roughly 2,000 French troops and 600 British troops. The French troops did not look as if they had done any fighting and had British blankets and gasmasks, and our troops only had what they stood up in.


Escape (2)


After I got away I turned South and passed Bois Guillaume. When I arrived at Rouen again I swam the Seine, and rested the night at a farm, obtaining clothes and food and necessities for the journey. On the road from Rouen, on the 16th June, I stole a bicycle and cycled past Elbeuf, Louviers and Evreux and 10kms past Evreux I stopped for the night. The next day, 17th June, I proceeded to Paris, but on the way I heard the Germans were in Paris, so I turned off towards Dreux. From Dreux I proceeded to Chartres and stopped the night in Dreux, arriving at Chartres on the morning of 19th June. I saw a German dispatch rider who was lost and mistaking me for a Frenchman asked me the direction, but not knowing much French I could not answer him. He then became suspicious and stopped a lorry and sent me back to Chartres.


Recapture


At Chartres I was interrogated. The Germans told me that they were going to bomb London and Manchester, and I told them that the German soldiers were only fit to bomb civilians and that was the way they had taken France. A German soldier lost his temper and threatened me but did not abuse me. That same night (19th June) I was taken to Evreux to a concentration camp, where I met men of the Glasgow Highlanders. The camp was in a field surrounded by barbed wire, and there was no shelter. The food was peas and beans which we got at 6am and 9pm. In this camp was Driver George Prince. I was here for two days. From this camp we went to Rouen and on the 24th June left for Cambrai by train.


Escape (3)


On the journey the train slowed down, and I slipped out the doors which were open, and got onto the buffer of the last truck and dived into the ditch at the side of the railway. This was about 50km from Abbeville. I got away and proceeded towards Abbeville , which I passed on the 30th June, and wish was almost demolished . There was only a few German troops about.


Recapture


On the evening of the 1st July was again captured at La Hordle.




Escape (4)


I again attempted to escape by boat, whcih I found 50 yards from the German Guard Room, but as there was an in-shore wind I could not get around the headland. (The Germans did not see me go out). I was fired on by a German sentry, and lost an oar, and when I drifted back to shore again the Germans took me prisoner.


Recapture


They took me back to the guard room and gave me a good meal, and I slept with two German soldiers. The next day, the 2nd July, I was taken to a village along the coast where I met two other men from the Seaforth Highlanders, a Lance Corporal and a Private, who had escaped and been re-captured. After two days I was taken in the comapny of three Frenchman and 6 British (One was LCpl Dixon of the Artillery) to Rouen, where I met 20 British soldiers who had been discharged from hospital in Rouen. On the 7th July we left Rouen for Cambrai by train. We were there for three days , and here LCpl Dixon left to work on the railway. We were shut up in the barracks, and guarded by sentries. We slept in the cellars which we first cleaned out. On the 11th July we left Cambrai for Tournai by lorry. We spent the night at Tournai and then proceeded towards Germany in the lorry, when I escaped from the lorry.


Escape (5)


The lorry at the rear, which was guarding us, dropped behind, and as our lorry turned a bend I jumped off into the ditch. There was about 20 in the lorry and my escape was not noticed.


I spent the night outside Tournai in a shed, and the next day, the 12th July, I proceeded to Courtrai and again stole a bicycle. I passed Ypres and arrived at La Panne on the 13th July. Here I could not find a boat available so returned inland, looking for work,and posed as a Pole to the Belgians. The man I spoke to spoke Polish so I had to admit my nationality. He gave me a nights lodging and food and the next day (14th July) gave me 250 Frs. and a map, showing the frontier between occupied and unoccupied territory. This man who would not give his name, was the owner of a farm and Chateau about 4kms east of La Panne. He also helped me pass the Beglian-French frontier at a place where it was not guarded. This place was only 3kms from his home and 3kms west of Andschoote.


I proceeded on my way passing Cassel, St. Pol, and Amiens, travelling by day on a bicycle, I reached Beauvais and Parison the 15th. Here I rested for 2 days and 3 nights with some people I discovered at Villeneuve St. George. They were French and tried to get me papers from the Spainish Consul but were unable to do so. The brother-in-law of this family is George Drummond, 51-53 Broughton Road, Edinburgh.


I left Villeneuve on the morning of the 18th July passing Fontaineblue and Meleen and arriving at Montargis at night. I was not stopped at all. I made myself a passport with a card I bought in a shop. I had my photograph taken and filled in the details and stamped it with a 2fr. piece.


Capture by French


I left Montargis on the 19th July, and passing Briare arrived by Nevers by night. I proceeded towards Vighy via Moulinswhere I arrived on the night of the 20th. Arrived at Lyons on the 21st and on the 22nd got to Andacon, where I was taken prisoner by Gendarmes and kept the night in the guardroom. The next day at 12 O'clock, I was taken to Tournon and entrained for Marseilles with a Gendarme as escort. I was treated well.


Arrived at Marseilles on the evening of the 23rd and was taken to Fort St. Jean, and given a meal and a bed to sleep in. The next day (24th July) was taken to the British Consul and gave him my particulars. He sent me to the Seaman's Mission in Rue de Forbin, where I had a meal and spent the night. The next morning (25th July) a French detective came to the mission and sked for British soldiers. He looked English and spoke English so well that I thought he was from the consul, and I told him I was British. He then took me back to Fort St. Jean where I was interned with 20 other British soldiers, commanded by Major Potts. Major Potts had his orders from the French. We had fatigues in the morning and evening and were not allowed out of barracks. After a week or so we were given 50 frs. a week, but I intended escaping, so asked for a months money in advance and shortly after escaped (30th July).


Escape from Fort St. Jean


I was walking on the ramparts about 200 feet above the sea and climbed into a narrow ledge holding onto a rail partition topped with barbed wire. I hurried down some steps to a drawbridge and walked across the drawbridge. I went to the Seamans Mission and said 'goodbye' to the Padre and got the first train to Perpignan. From Perpignan I proceeded to the Spainish Frontier, arriving there on the night of the 1st August. I was again taken by Gendarmes when trying to cross the frontier. They would not let me go, but told me the best route to cross the frontier and the best time to go, which was at daybreak. They kept me two days at Berbere. On the 3rd August I was taken to St. Cyprien where I met Sapper Richards. On the evening of the same day we both attempted to escape by boat from the beach at St. Cyprien, but the boat sank, and we had to return. We hoped to get into Spain by passing the frontier at sea and then turn inland. On the 4th August we tried via Le Porthus to pass the frontier but were again taken back to St. Crypien on the 5th.


We met a Czech who, on finding out we were British, told us of his wish to return to England with us and arranged to meet us at St. Crypien on the moring of the 8th August. He turned up, and he and I left without Richards, as Richards was ill. We met no troops at the frontier during the day, and at night we passed the mountains. We had a day and a half in the country and at 11 O'clock we seperated, as the Czech was affraid to go by road because he had been a member of the Republican Army. I arrived at Gerona at 1.30 and looked for the French Consul, but he was not available, so I continued towards Barcelona. I also enquired for the British Consul at Gerona, but could not get any information.


About 4 kilos from Gerona the railway crossed the road, and I decided to go on by rail because it was direct and there was less chance of being captured by Spainish troops. As it was only 96 kilos more to Barcelona I decided to do it in a day and night. At 9 O'clock that night I stopped in the railway viaduct and slept beside the track until the moon rose at 11 O 'clock. I then proceeded on my way and arrived at Barcelona by mid-afternoon on the 11th, and enquired for the British Consul but could not find him. I then proceeded to the American Consul and asked him to find the British Consul and ask him to send a man to take me to him, which he did. After giving particulars and the consulate I was given a meal and a bath, and the next day I had some new clothes. I stayed a week in Barcelona resting my feet. The first three days I spent with Mr Amore of the consulate, and the last three days with Mr Dorchy, also of the consulate.


On the 17th I was given a passport, tickets and 50 pesetas, and a visa for Portugal, and left for Madrid. I arrived at Madrid on the 18th with the Czech, who had arrived in Barcelona three days after me. His name was Frett Von Trenk. On the 19th the Czech left the Embassy and tried to cross the Portuguese frontier, and I did not see him again.


At the embassy in Madrid I met LCpl Donaldson and Pte Dickson, who were also waiting to proceed to England. After 10 days, Pte Sugg arrived at the embassy. On the 6th September prisoners were repatriated from Spainsih concentration camps and arrived at the embassy.


On the evening of 7th September, we left for Gibraltar. We arrived there on Saturday 8th September, and spen the following 12 days at Gibraltar as guests of the rock. We left for England on the 19th, arriving Londonderry on the 27th September , in a destroyer.


Gazetted 29.11.40

 

David Warren Herring is my father.......I am searching for information about his service record during and after ww2. Can you please help? thanks

 

Hi mad kipper,
moved your post into the thread started by Andy.
Good luck with your research.

 

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I can get you a copy of the 51 Div Signals War diary at some point as I'm collecting the 1940 War Diaries but what I would suggest you do to identify any other units he served with after this is apply for his service records from the MOD at Glasgow:

Army Personnel Centre - British Army Website

Once you have these you can then look at other diaries to follow his route through WW2 in some detail.

Regards
Andy

 

Thanks for your help......much appreciated

 

Hi Andy, That would be great if you could do that....looking forward to hearing from you regards kip

 

The Major Potts your father meets at Fort St Jean was my Grandfather Major W C W Potts of the 7th Battalion Royal Northumberland Fusiliers, 51st Highland Division! Its a small world!

 

This is fantastic thank you for emailing me......I have just joined and I'm having trouble navigating the site, sorry for not answering sooner....I'd be on jankers if my old man where still around! Great if you have any info you could pass on regards kip

 

Mad Kippper,

You can see Major Potts's adventure on the following link on this forum

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/31895-ronald-hawkins-3-sqdn-royal-air-force-gent-city-cemetery-2.html


Chester

 

Thanks Chester I will have a look. I googled your grandfather and went on facebook this evening. He was a very brave man. regards Kip

 

Kip,

The accounts by the escapers belies the enormity of what they actually did and went through. Your father received the DCM and not many OR's got that for escaping. Some OR's did not receive any medals at all for their escapes! It seems that most officers received the MC for their escapes which seems totally unfair in this day and age but I suppose people thought differently then. Interestingly I found out that my Grandfather had been recommended for an MBE which had then been downgraded. I my experience and having seen it at first hand, medals can be a bit of a lottery, but in your fathers case it was thoroughly deserved. Someone on this forum may correct me but for an OR in WW2 the DCM was one medal below a VC!

 

Chesterflyer, part though not all of the discrepancy between ORs and Officers, may be explained by how much an escaper planned and executed their own routes etc. I have seen a few worthy recommendations annotated in the paperwork with comments to the effect, good but not as good as .... It seems that if there was a lot of reliance on underground organisations for safe houses, paperwork and guides as opposed to having to seek out help and plan things themselves, then the likelihood of a (higher) award was slim, no matter how exciting/eventful the story. I have seen a Brigadier's award discussed in just such a manner ... IIRC he received a Mention.

I wonder if part of it may also be explained by the red tape. When a POW returned, just who was still around to put his name forward? - his unit may have been sent elsewhere, their commanders killed in the interim etc etc. It's more likely that Officers would come to the attention of their COs. There is one example that I recall where a wife wrote about her husband's worthiness / the unfairness of others being awarded for similar actions, and after investigation, he subsequently received a Mention.

I agree that a DCM is indicative of something well above the average.

 

The DCM is sometimes referred to as a near miss for a VC. A bit like the DSO too.

 

Thanks for your comments guys, much appreciated. Unfortunately he sold his medals years ago(not something he did lightly) but he had a family to support. I believe he may have been mentioned in despatches and wonder if he went on to receive the Croix de Guirre. He was a commando and was in Hvar and Italy and I think maybe if he was with the LRDG. He remained in the Royal Sigs and became an RSM...retiring after 23yrs service. Like most soldiers he spoke little of his exploits. I am desperate to find out more. regards Kip

 

Hi - If he had such a long career the first thing I would definately do is apply for his service records. They will tell you all medals he received and units he served with during his military career.

I've just checked the national archives online and my Royal Signals nominal roll and he's only listed for a DCM. That said they aren't always 100% accurate.

 

Thanks for your help......will follow your advice and let you know what I come up with kip

 

I remember my mother saying when I was young....'' with your father, it's the army first,his guns, his dog, me and then you kids'' 'once a soldier always a soldier' lol

 

Mad kipper, interested to chat ref my Grandfather, Steve M

 

This man was my wonderful uncle he was everything to our family we treasured him as we now treasure his memory