Lt. Col. James Currant, Col. Michael Smith in Admin Box & India

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by zeezee, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    Hi
    I started posting without introducing myself so please consider this my introduction. My grandfather was an RAMC medical officer who died in the Admin Box - on February 7th 1944 on the same night as the atrocities. His name was Captain John Barrett Ashmore (aka Jack/Jackie). He's in the CWGC database, buried in Myanmar. I have pictures of all 3 of his grave sites.

    My father is still alive - and he has some documents and photos, and has just (finally!) sent off for his service records, after having thought about it, and struggled with it for a few years after my gran died when he became next of kin. We also are awaiting film footage of the admin box from the IWM - which is very exciting to say the least.

    I am new to researching this kind of stuff so have already made some mistakes along the way. We have this great photo of my grandfather and another fellow on camels taken in Srinagar. I had previously thought it was his friend Alexander Hunter whom he mentions in a letter as being with him in Sringar but my father later found a reference in a letter to the picture and saying that it is a picture of him and "the Colonel". So now which Colonel might it be...

    We also have a letter from Lt. Col James Currant to my grandmother - a letter that talks about Jack's death, and his burial, and his OC Col. Michael Smith. It is a lovely letter, that talks about the beautiful (??) scene in which my grandfather is buried. I have posted a picture of his first grave on here in another post. It is a mud pit.

    Someone recently sent me a copy of a page from a book, that lists a few of the personnel who were there, including a few of the officers, but not all. Both Lt. Col. James Currant, and Col. Michael Smith are listed were there at the time. I wish I knew what book it was from! Wondering if anyone knows the names of books that list personnel (including some of the casualties) who were in the Admin Box?

    Anyway, one thing that is interesting is that our family lore always contained bits of torture and the horrible events that happened in the main dressing station. We have a newspaper clipping which describes some of it. However, in this letter from Lt. Col. James Currant, he says that Jack died from a mortar. Does that make any sense if he was working in the main dressing station? I suppose it will become more clear once we have his record. The letter definitely reads like a letter to a widower, possibly to spare the details, it is very romanticized, and the handwriting is extremely flourished. But perhaps what he said is true. Is this the kind of thing we will find out in the service record? I hope so. It would be very nice to find out that he died quickly, rather than the stories that we have been holding on to. The only real reason we are questioning this letter is the lore, and that everyone protected his mother from the story - so there were two family stories, one for my gran, and Jack's mum, and one for everyone else. My gran found out the truth or some element of it, and so wrote Lt. Col. James Currant I guess for clarification.

    I would like to post some scans, but I am a little nervous about it since they are private documents - and some part of me doesn't want them to be used without our permission - or acknowledgement. And of course, it's hard to do that with the internet being what it is so maybe I should just get over it and put them up. I'm also having trouble adding pictures to my albums!
    I'll post about that in the appropriate area.

    Edit: I put some pictures up in my album. There's a newspaper article, picture of Jack on a camel, some of his grave markers, and him in uniform. More to come later.

    Anyway, thought I'd start this post so as to stop hijacking other posts! (whoops!)
     
  2. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    According to Turnbull's "Battle of the Box" Lt.Col. M.L. Smith, MC, IAMC, OC 54 Field Ambulance was put in command MDS defence, while Major Currant, IAMC, 66 Indian Field Ambulance was in Operation Theatre of MDS. Unit which were placed in the area of MDS were:

    - 66 Indian Field Ambulance
    - 12 Mobile Surgical Unit
    - 48 Indian Dental Unit
    - 28 Indian Blood Transfusion Unit

    But seems that there were also doctors from some other units. War diaries of 66 IFA could be found at Kew:

    The National Archives | The Catalogue | Full Details | WO 177/2151

    And War diaries of 12 MSU

    Detecting your browser settings

    Couldn't find war diaries for other two units. Some members of 66 IFA and 12 MSU were decorated during the war and I'll check if there is anything mentioned in citations for awards.
     
  3. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Well done sol, I knew you would have some good input for zeezee.:D
     
  4. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    What's that in the records office...? Is it a bird...? Is it a plane...?

    No...! It's SuperSol...! :D

    Seriously... I don't know how he does it... ;)
     
  5. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    This is so great! Thanks so much Sol! I believe my grandfather was in 54 Field Ambulance, but we are still awaiting his service record so I am going by info in his letters. Based on the information you have provided, would that place him outside of the main dressing station? I don't really understand the difference in MDS Defence vs Operation Theatre of MDS.

    Also - someone mentioned to me that as an officer - my grandfather would have had to written weekly reports - are these what would be in a war diary? or would they be some other kind of document?

    This is all so very exciting- I can't even begin to explain how meaningful this all is to our family to start getting a picture. My dad just scanned in & transcribed Jack's letters for me, indexed them, and bound them in a book for me. I spent the holiday weekend (Canada Day here) reading them over and over! Some are pretty funny.

    My dad believes the pic of Jack on the Camel (in my album) with another fellow is Col. (Major later it seems) Michael Smith based on what he says in his letters.
    They are likely in Abbottabad - not Srinigar as we first thought.
     
  6. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    Sol is one of those people that always amazes me, like he's hard-wired into archive material...

    Diaries I've worked on vary to such a degree that they go from faint copies (triplicate or quadruplicate typed bottom copy and all the carbons were old... o_O) to hand written notes that can be difficult to decipher to nothing but facts (and by that I mean "waiters wine grade II - 1") to the mind bogling details of something like the 111th or 77th IID's... some records, sadly, no longer or never existed...

    There are a few people here that do deals to copy them off to disc or TNA (The National Archives, if the records are there - there is a relevant thread) certainly do - DREW5233 (10p against £2.80p per page) does a lot of work in this fashion to help suplement his research
     
  7. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    From the "Battle of the Box"

    Lieutenant-colonel M. L. Smith, MC, IAMC, OC 54 Field Ambulance was put in command MDS defences and established his HQ along with Captain Jabbar, IAMC, in the reception tent.

    The rest of the officers took up the following positions:

    a ADMS and Colour Havildar Londe - Office tent

    b DADMS - Officers quarters

    c Lieutenant-Colonel Brunet, OC 66 Indian Field Ambulance - Officers wards

    d Major Currant, IAMC, 66 Indian Field Ambulance
    Major Lilwall, RAMC 12 Mobile Surgical Unit
    Captain McCaul, RAMC, 12 Mobile Surgical Unit
    Captain Crawford, RAMC, 8 Mobile Surgical Unit
    Captain Samuels, RAMC, 66 Indian Field Ambulance
    All in Operation theatre

    e Captain Dawney, ADC, 44 Dental Unit
    Captain Roynane, RAMC, blood Transfusion Unit
    Blood Transfusion Lorry near MI Room


    Therewere also war diaries of 54 Field Ambulance but they're starting only from December 1944.

    Detecting your browser settings

    Your Grandfather could served with this unit but he also could be transferred to some other units due war needs. His Service record will give you more info and then you can try with war diaries. Another book which could be interesting to you is Geoffrey Evans' "The Desert and the Jungle". He was in command of "Admin Box" defence and there were couple of pages in the book about attack on MDS.
     
  8. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    I keep trying to respond but it's summertime and I have my children at home right now and they keep dragging me away from the computer!

    Hebridean Chindit - that would be frustrating, but also a fun challenge to decode, and even try to read the scrawl. Thanks for the info about people who can acquire the copies ! I will look into that further once I have the service record since it seems like there are some mysteries to solve.

    Sol - that is mysterious that his name is not there given our families stories & the letters- but this whole process has been kind of like that so I won't be surprised to find out that we have been re-telling an erroneous story for years!
    I just posted to the Burma Star Association's newsletter so I hope that I am not too far off! eek! Ah well, can always correct in the next newsletter although we might not get the record for some time.

    The public library has the Evans book in reference so I will add it to the list of ones I lookup once I can get over that way.

    That looks like a worthwhile book you have transcribed from - alot of info! Perhaps I will track one down.
    Thanks so much for your help again!
     
  9. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    I'm fourteen years into my research and every time I find something useful it creates another 2/3/4 avenues of research which lead to another 2/3/4 which... o_O

    I do get sidetracked rather eas... Wow...! look at that squirrel...! :D

    Good luck...!

    Yay, Blue Jays...! (no idea who they are but a certain Geddy Lee likes them... ;))
     
  10. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    Yeah, who knew that a couple of questions to my dad would open up a can of worms that i need to dissect, or something. Bad analogy but i'm sure with 14 years under your belt you know the bug well!

    Blue Jays are a nasty bird! Although pretty. That's about all they're up to in baseball too.
    Geddy Lee and I were born in the same town. We're like this: &
     
  11. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    Seen 'em loads of times from 1st UK in '77 but that's my limit as the last few have been rather cost prohibitive... o_O

    Daughter's a fan but SWMBO is from KY and likes all kinds of music - country AND western... :D

    Also rather keen on a certain Mr Mitchell and his old buddy Max ... ;)
     
  12. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    ok you lost me on the Mitchell one - I only know Joni. in 77 I have few memories other than digging a tunnel out of our backdoor of our house because there was so much snow, and chewing on the fence, getting it stuck, and losing a tooth. :D
     
  13. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    Just looked at one of the letters received from my grandfather Jack and it says 54th Field Amb. 18 ABPO - dated 12.7.43
    his later ones just say c/o Grindlays

    Wondering what the 18 ABPO means.
     
  14. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    Wondering what the 18 ABPO means.

    ABPO should be the Army Base Post Office
     
  15. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    Well, that makes sense, and seems obvious now! Thanks!
     
  16. Hebridean Chindit

    Hebridean Chindit Lost in review... Patron

    ok you lost me on the Mitchell one...

    Kim Mitchell, ex of Max Webster - had/has a radio show on CILQ-FM Toronto but still gigs in his own name - check them out if rock music is an interest...

    Back to the filing for me... o_O
     
  17. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    Oh! duh - kim mitchell - patio lanterns!

    i remember being at a party - and a wig and baseball cap were being passed around - so anyone could look like kim mitchell if they wanted. hehe
     
  18. zeezee

    zeezee Member

    Ok so hopefully I can be succinct in this post.
    A kind person recently sent me the relevant pages of the Admin Box from Henry Maule's book that Sol suggested I look at. What an amazing bunch of pages. The most graphic as of yet that I have read and what feels like the most honest - or maybe the most emotionally charged.

    Interestingly, according to this account there was a mortar attack of some kind which affected 10 of the prisoners, some of whom had significant injuries and were dying. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong - it was a library book so I can' t check) in Louis Allen's book - Evans vehemently denies there being any mortar attack. My grandfather was there, we know that - we're just not sure exactly where but we know he died that night.

    In a letter from Lt. Col. James Currant to my grandmother (who wrote to him first so he is responding to her questions I guess)
    Currant says:
    ..."You will know now, I'm sure, through Jackie's O.C. Col Michael Smith that your husband was actually killed in action by a mortar bomb. His death must have been instantaneous. I was privileged to assist at his burial. He is buried in a rather beautiful valley. Were it not the scene of such tragedy of late, one would think of nought but the loveliness of the scene.

    then a little later in the letter he says

    ..."I only wish that newspaper reporters would stick to the fact and not allow their own too vivid imaginations to colour all the reports. I have not seen the article you mention, I have heard of it from my wife."

    It occurred to me a few days ago that Currant's letter is dated March 28 1944 - perhaps he was not even allowed to talk about it yet.

    At any rate - I have read a few accounts so far that mention mortars and a few that deny it.

    Also - my dad - who is helping me with putting together alot of the information seems to feel that the numbers of reported doctors stated in most articles does not correlate to the names of Officers he's managed to gather. So we were wondering if there would have been Officers in the RAMC or IAMC that were not doctors - but administrative perhaps?

    Another odd thing - we know that my grandfather was in RAMC - but in his letters he says he is in the IAMC. Was it common for them to switch back and forth? Would he have been switched into IAMC when 14th army was made?
     
  19. NIGEL MANNERS

    NIGEL MANNERS New Member

    Hi

    Zeezee
    My Grandfather was right there. A letter he sent home says this "...our wounded have been able to get away from here, poor devils, have had a rough time. I think it is only safe to say now, as this letter is not likely to fall into Jap hands. The dirty beggars, captured the hospital a few nights ago and tied up all the doctors and orderlies and shot them, and went round to each patient and shot each one, its the worst episode yet. We got another place going, and now they will all be flown to Calcutta in a day or so. Reinforcements have arrived this evening, I have Auchinleck just near me so my part is strengthened, so jappie will get more than he bargained for if he comes our way........
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2020

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