Mystery plaque dumped in Hornchurch, Essex

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Mike L, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Also the KOYLI was Herbert, not Humphrey :wink:

    Ooops, I missed that as well....
     
  2. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Easily done Pete, I have found I have missed things and only discovered them by going back over all 49 pages. Sends you bug-eyed.:unsure:
    I am trying to do an up to date summary condensing it as much as possible (currently 9 pages in 10 font) by leaving out most of what we know and crystalising what I think we need to eliminate or look at a bit more. Will post it when I think it is condensed enough.
    Strangely there seems to be a bit to do on a couple of the WW2 names, I thought these would be the easiest on this forum;)
     
  3. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Strangely there seems to be a bit to do on a couple of the WW2 names, I thought these would be the easiest on this forum;)

    Often the case. For WW1 we have 1901 and 1911 census and with luck some of the service records survive. No good waiting for the 1931 census, someone dropped a woodbine on it.
     
  4. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    Cheers Chris, getting difficult to see the wood for the trees!
    When I get the files updated ok if I email a copy over to duplicate storage?
    Geoff/Pete would you like a copy too?

    No problem Mike.
     
  5. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Could someone check the 1911 census for Garths Tottenham address in Willoughby Park Rd? I can only do this at the Library and thats a day out!

    Pete
     
  6. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    Unfortunately he's in Surrey in 1911
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Humphrey's address on enlistment 17th March 1916 was:
    3 Willoughby Park Road,
    Tottenham,
    London N.

    If that's any help.
     
  8. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Geoff, I take it it wasn't one of your Woodbines?
    More likely to have been a Bavarian variety?
     
  9. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    This is number 3 according to google. Assuming the street numbering is the same. Frederic Villas, the date looks like 1870.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Ref Lt. H Blower

    CWGC :: Certificate

    I've not got the Bn diary but I'll see if I can find what they were doing on the day he died. I suspect he'll be in the diary though.

    Ref the address I can't help I'm affraid.

    Andy
     
  11. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Cheers Andy, I would like to find out a bit more about Harold Blower.
    Apart from being a WW2 casualty he is one of the few Officers found and I was hoping there might be something discoverable.For your info England phil found this a while ago:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by englandphil
    Born 1909, family lived lived at 153 Grange Road King's Heath, Kings Norton, Worcester. Younger brother of Alfred and Catherine Frances.

    The undermentioned from Artists ,Rif.,
    T.A. (Cadets, i63rd Officer Cadet Training
    Unit) are granted Emeigency Commns. as
    2nd Lts. 22nd Oct. 1939: —

    R. War. R.—Pte. Harold BLOWER (105014)
    According to the probate records for 1940, Harold Blower, lived at 102, New park Avenue, Palmers Green, London at the time of his death. His estate, was awarded to his Father who at the time was still living in Birmingham.

    His elder sister, Catherine Frances appears to have died aged 10 in 1916.


    Apart from what's available on GWGC that's about all we have on him so far.
     
  12. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    Ref Lt. H Blower

    CWGC :: Certificate

    I've not got the Bn diary but I'll see if I can find what they were doing on the day he died. I suspect he'll be in the diary though.

    Ref the address I can't help I'm affraid.

    Andy

    Here's Harold and parents in 1911. If this is our man, no obvious link to North London.


    EDIT: Too late. Just seen Mike's post regarding Palmers Green
     

    Attached Files:

  13. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

  14. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Thanks Clive, I think that is where Englandphil found some information he posted some while ago (actually I just checked and it was 6/3/2010, over a year ago now!)
     
  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    ok Mike
    thanks
     
  16. -tmm-

    -tmm- Senior Member

    Possible more info here

    charges though
    Military Genealogy :: Army Roll of Honour WWII: Harold Blower

    Luckily that database is on Ancestry:

    Name: Harold Blower
    Given Initials: H
    Rank: Second Lieutenant
    Death Date: 21 May 1940
    Number: 105014
    Birth Place: Birmingham
    Residence: London N
    Regiment at Enlistment: Artists Rifles
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: France and Belgium Campaign, 1939/40
    Regiment at Death: Royal Warwickshire Regiment
    Branch at Death: Infantry
     
  17. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Is it just me or did we have a little 'glitch' on WW2Talk?

    Chris, Geoff, Pete,
    In going through all the 17 files again I was reminded of this:

    Stanley Dyer
    4 possibles from CWGC, WW2:

    DYER, STANLEY VICTOR, 6923263 Rifleman, 2nd Bn. Rifle Brigade.
    Died 09/11/1942 age 20. Son of Frederick and Alice Dyer, of Edmonton, Middlesex; husband of Madge Irene Dyer, of Edmonton.
    XI. G. 2. EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY

    DYER, STANLEY, P/JX 161871, Ordinary Seaman, H.M.S. Barham, Royal Navy.
    Died 25/11/1941 age 18. Son of George Henry and Mary Jane Dyer, of Ryde, Isle of Wight.
    Panel 50, Column 2. PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

    DYER, STANLEY CECIL, 6410976, Private, 9th Bn. Royal Sussex Regiment.
    Died 16/08/1944 age 34. Son of Thomas Herbert and Elizabeth Jane Dyer.
    Face 14. RANGOON MEMORIAL

    DYER, STANLEY VICTOR, PLY/X 322, Marine, Royal Marines, H.M.S. Glorious.
    Died 08/06/1940 age 35. Panel 43, Column 2. PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

    PhyloRoadking found 4 records on Family History Records – can anyone check these out?

    There is no real proof of the Edmonton connection yet, but found this for WW2.
    Name: DYER, STANLEY VICTOR
    Initials: S V
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Rifleman
    Regiment/Service: Rifle Brigade
    Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
    Age: 20
    Date of Death: 09/11/1942
    Service No: 6923263
    Additional information: Son of Frederick and Alice Dyer, of Edmonton, Middlesex; husband of Madge Irene Dyer, of Edmonton.
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: XI. G. 2.
    Cemetery: EL ALAMEIN WAR CEMETERY
    From Geoff501 4/3/10.

    British Army roll of honour transcription on Ancestry for Stanley Cecil Dyer gives "London (not otherwise specified)" for both birthplace and residence. Not sure that helps much.
    From tmm 8/3/10.

    DYER, STANLEY CECIL, 6410976, Private, 9th Bn. Royal Sussex Regiment.
    Died 16/08/1944 age 34. Son of Thomas Herbert and Elizabeth Jane Dyer.
    Face 14. RANGOON MEMORIAL

    The Army ROH Entry shows him as being from London too.
    Name: Stanley Dyer
    Given Initials: S C
    Rank: Private
    Death Date: 16 Aug 1944
    Number: 6410976
    Birth Place: London (Not Otherwise Specified)
    Residence: London (Not Otherwise Specified)
    Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
    Theatre of War: Burma
    Regiment at Death: Royal Sussex Regiment
    Branch at Death: Infantry
    Name:Stanley DyerGiven Initials:S CRank:PrivateDeath Date:16 Aug 1944Number:6410976Birth Place:London (Not Otherwise Specified)Residence:London (Not Otherwise Specified)Branch at Enlistment:InfantryTheatre of War:BurmaRegiment at Death:Royal Sussex RegimentBranch at Death:Infantry
    From Englandphil, 5/9/2010.

    Phylo's comments:
    'found 4 records on Family History Records'

    I am not familiar with these records - anyone got any knowledge?
    This seems like one we might be able to tie down a bit better with only 4 records to chase. Any takers?;)
     
  18. PeterG

    PeterG Senior Member

    Phew! I've just read through the entire thread. What a wonderful story, congratulations to all. Well done!

    About half way through, before the home of the plaque was so cleverly located, I googled 'thieves steal war memorial' to see if that angle might help. To my surprise there were 104,000 results. Of course there are many repetitions, but even conservatively estimating that there might be 100 repetitions of each theft that leaves an awful lot. These despicable crimes seem to be escalating almost out of control. What times we live in!
     
  19. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    PeterG, glad you enjoyed the story. Anyone who has read through it all knows that huge credit goes to the people who have contributed so freely with their time and expertise. Pete Keane, Geoff501, Englandphil, -tmm- (Chris) to name a few.
    But the real heroes are the 17 men commemorated on the plaque who died in the two World Wars. I like to think we are all doing our bit to pay tribute to them and record their sacrifice in a more personal way. In doing so we have had some luck in bringing together some living friends and relatives and that is greatly satisfying.
    Let's hope we have even more success with the research.

    Mike
     
  20. englandphil

    englandphil Very Senior Member

    With contact with members of the Pegrum family, have you been able to ascertain exactly where the war memorial plaque came from ?

    P
     

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